Maybe the title should be "An overview of the game industry". And I don't know what else I can do besides share my general theories of how game development should be. But I made that my thread title because I knew I would eventually have to bring my next paragraph up. I'm not asking questions because I'm not willing to try and learn on my own. I'm simply not smart enough.

I think its necessary for someone to make an engine for me. Then teach me how to modify/clone/delete scripts to implement new gameplay. Meaning that someone would be building a game engine for me and letting me modify it to add content.

As far as my general theory all my previous posts in this thread still stand. I think you need to package separate client and server applications. I think you need to be able to update your game after launch. I think you need to have a database and incorporate it with your script. And I think you need a good website that ties into the database too. You'll also obviously need to market your game.

I don't know much about the nitty gritty. I just know that a lot of it is scripting. And I think its fair to assume that I'd rather work with scripts, only modifying them slightly, rather than trying to write my own. I think the scripts in games on the market are very complex.

Theres a lot that goes into making games : character controllers, physics, user interface, cameras, models, rigging, animation, materials, textures, and other graphics too.

You can use existing game editors, like GameMaker or Construct.

Or you can learn how to program using online tutorials and books. We'll be happy to help you learn to program, when you have questions, but we won't do your work for you.

It's exhausting and frustrating at times (and never ceases to be exhausting and frustrating), but the work, over time, becomes enjoyable. Really enjoyable. You'll learn new things and grow greatly. We can show you where to start and what steps to take, but you'll actually need to do the work and invest alot of time.

I'm looking for step by step instruction on completing a finished product from scratch. By completing this tutorial series I would have effectively produced a game. I could then repeat the tutorial over and over again until I'm comfortable expanding and modifying the code base I learned to work with. I'm not happy with the tutorials and learning resources. Everything seems like it would require you to piece together knowledge from all over the place and put it together. And I really don't think that's going to work for me. And sadly, I would only like to be working with something that I'm interested in, my idea for my mmo.

I'm not happy with the tutorials and learning resources. Everything seems like it would require you to piece together knowledge from all over the place and put it together.

Yes, it does require you to do that. Not by copy+pasting the different pieces, but by learning the different foundational skills and mastering the basics before you build your own code architectures.

Game development is like building a house. Every house is different. There isn't one tutorial that says, "Here's how to build a house in ten million steps.". Instead, there are tutorials that say, "Here's how to install a furnace.", "Here's how to wire up a light.", "Here's how to wire up a light with two different light-switches", "Here's how to solder some copper", "Here's how to use a drill", "Here's how to frame out a wall.", "Here's how to put up sheetrock", "Here's how...", "Here's how...", "Here's how..."

And even then, the tutorials are talking in abstract, because no two piping jobs are the same, and no two wiring jobs are the same, and no two furnace installations are the same.

Game development is like that. You can find step-by-step tutorials for building teensy tiny games, like Tetris or Asteroids. But definitely not something as humongously huge as an MMO.

And I really don't think that's going to work for me.

Why not? It works for millions of other people, in hundreds of different trades.

And sadly, I would only like to be working with something that I'm interested in, my idea for my mmo.

That is sad, because unless you learn to do the boring work along with the interesting, you won't ever grow and won't accomplish your goals. You have to actually learn the real skills, by doing real work, and real research and study; you can't just skip to the fun parts.

An MMO is way over the head of even really really skilled programmers. MMOs require huge teams, huger budgets, lots of time, and lots of boring work. It's unwise to even start an MMO for your first project. Yes, you'll learn even from the failure, but you'll learn more by taking the time to succeed.

I would define success as putting a polished product on the market. If I thought learning how to build a house was anything like learning to program a video game then I would get into carpentry. I want to learn how to produce games that play just like the ones on the market. And you can't convince me that it would be impossible for me to learn everything from a series of tutorials. I simply believe that there is no way for me to learn to do what I want to do.

I'll iterate this again. You need to package a client and a server. You need a database that integrates with your scripts. You need a website that integrates with your database that you use to sell your game. You also need the ability to patch updates and expansions for your games.

I don't want to learn pong or tetris. I don't want to waste my time digging through manuals. I don't even want to do anything besides work on my MMO.

I also think that the scripts in games on the market today are far more complex than anything I see being discussed by amateurs. I think its a waste of time to not be working with code that's already been written for games like Halo and WoW. I think a solid effort needs to be made to produce games with custom art using the mechanics of other games on the market.

Your trying to get me to waste my time on inferior applications of game design. Theres a big difference between some kid on youtube doing a tutorial and learning how to produce a game that you can buy in a store. Or even if I put in the time to learn what I could learn from manuals(which I can't I simply can't learn like that anyways) it still would never measure up to Halo or WoW.

And furthermore I think it can be done quickly. I think all that bullshit that games have a huge deadline and require a huge team is just that, bullshit. I can't demonstrate to you that its easy because I'm not smart. And its not like Halo or WoW is going to release source code for their game and teach everyone how to release their own servers with their own art using their game mechanics.

I would define success as putting a polished product on the market.

Exactly. Not making an exact clone of someone else's game, which is the only thing a perfect step-by-step tutorial can deliver.

If I thought learning how to build a house was anything like learning to program a video game then I would get into carpentry.

They are very conceptually similar. So similar, that there many allegorical comparisons between the two. Many parts of programming is named after concepts taken from architecture and construction.

Theres no reason why you can't learn everything in one place from the same source.

The reason is that that source doesn't exist, and if it did exist, it would only contain a one-sided viewpoint, instead of giving you a breadth of views from a larger pool of sources ("Without counsel, plans go awry, But in the multitude of counselors they are established."). Wisdom comes from many conflicting viewpoints, and from collective pools of experience and knowledge. Not from a single tutorial or a single expert. (This is why mentors are usually a bad idea).

Nobody is going to hand you a step by step guide to making your game. Nobody is going to make your game for you. But if you want to make a game, people will gladly invest their time to help you learn how to acquire the skills necessary for you to make whatever kind of game you want. But you have to do the work.

What would be wrong with a WoW or Halo clone? Besides that if you robbed their software/projects... learned how to use them... used your own art... packaged everything and started your own company... it would be illegal

I wouldn't even have a problem maybe learning to make a clone of a game from a tutorial even if it wasn't WoW or Halo caliber. It would still need to be organized though and teach me everything step by step. Theres nothing wrong with copying someone else, especially if it taught you a valuable skill in its entirety.

There isn't much more to making a game then putting scripts together with assets inside of an editor, packaging your applications, and hosting a server a database and a website, and updating and expanding your game with patches.

And I don't like that your trying to compare building houses to producing games.

I want to learn how to produce games that play just like the ones on the market.

So then go learn the same way that those developers learned.

And you can't convince me that it would be impossible for me to learn everything from a series of tutorials. I simply believe that there is no way for me to learn to do what I want to do.

That's a stupid thing to believe, because games exist on the market, people have made those games, and they have learned how to make them. Therefore, logic says that there is a way to learn to do what you want to do. You just don't want to learn.

I'll iterate this again. You need to package a client and a server. You need a database that integrates with your scripts. You need a website that integrates with your database that you use to sell your game. You also need the ability to patch updates and expansions for your games.

And I'll say this again: You haven't yet learned, so your statements are all obvious points that everyone knows, except the points where you are wrong, because you don't know.

I don't want to waste my time digging through manuals.

It's not wasting time. Learning, experience, knowledge, is not a waste of time. They are stepping stones to your goals. If you want to ignore the boring parts, you won't acquire the skill necessary to achieve what you want.

I don't even want to do anything besides work on my MMO.

I also think that the scripts in games on the market today are far more complex than anything I see being discussed by amateurs.

But you are the amateur. So you don't actually have the knowledge to know whether anyone else is speaking accurate information or not.

Theres a big difference between some kid on youtube doing a tutorial and learning how to produce a game that you can buy in a store.

The difference is that that kid will someday become the one making the games you buy in stores, and the people too lazy to learn from those videos won't be making games, because games require work, and game development contains alot of boring parts.

Or even if I put in the time to learn what I could learn from manuals(which I can't I simply can't learn like that anyways)

Sure you can. But you just don't want to. "simply can't" means "it's too boring, so I choose not to". Don't mistake your own bad choices for fate.

Or even if I put in the time to learn what I could learn from manuals...it still would never measure up to Halo or WoW.

Yes it will, because that's how the developers of WoW and Halo learned... except they had even less tutorials and even less information available, so it was even more boring and even more difficult than you and I have it.

And furthermore I think it can be done quickly.
I think all that bullshit that games have a huge deadline and require a huge team is just that, bullshit.

But you are uneducated and unskilled in game development. So your claims are based on nothing except random thoughts without fact, evidence, or experience.

I can't demonstrate to you that its easy because I'm not smart.

There's a difference between smart and not smart, and studying is what makes that difference. Intelligence is gained. People grow in intelligence.

And its not like Halo or WoW is going to release source code for their game and teach everyone how to release their own servers with their own art using their game mechanics.

They won't release their source code (which is outdated anyway), but they willingly make video tutorials to help out other experts who have already mastered the basics from following other beginner tutorials and reading books and practice. I've watched plenty of videos of other developers talking about how they made their games - including videos from Halo developers. But you have to master the basics first, which takes work.

Your trying to get me to waste my time on inferior applications of game design.

*Sigh* No, I'm trying to tell you how to accomplish your goals. It is not my intention to annoy you, or to insult you, or to waste your time... but apparently I've ended up wasting my own time.

And I don't like that your trying to compare building houses to producing games.

Whether or not you like it, it is true.

If you don't believe me (who has experience in both programming and construction), the vast majority of the experts in every area of programming and game development agree that there are many suitable analogies to be found in carpentry, and many famous (among programmers) books and scientific articles have been written about the similarities between the two.

Claiming that it's not true, or that you don't like it, doesn't change that.

Whatever. No ones ever going to agree with my (somehow)radical idea that the easiest way to learn how to produce a game would be with a step by step tutorial. And that this single tutorial teaching me how to make a clone of a game from scratch would indeed teach me something. It wouldn't be stupid just because I didn't read the manual. And it wouldn't be stupid just because it was all from one source either.

I have no way of convincing anyone. I'm really tired of this. Trying to make my point to fucking people on the internet cuz its never going to work.