I don't use loops because choosing the notes is part of what I consider the compositional process--if someone else is choosing the notes, I feel like I'm giving up part of the compositional responsibility to someone else.

I say the same of the production process--very few loops are raw recordings--and I feel like if I use loops, then I have to center my production (mixing, music aesthetic/design, sound-design, etc.) to that sound.

Plus, I've never ever encountered a musical scenario solved by pre-made loops that wasn't better solved by just writing an original part.

The only time I've used sampled loops for a real gig was an instant mistake...

I was working on the music reproduction for the Special Edition of Monkey Island 2, I bought some jazz kit libraries for the gig knowing that I would have to do some kind of jazz thing. Unfortunately, the original drum work throughout the game was fairly simple and while that worked well in a totally MIDI sound environment, it was not only extremely sparse but also kind of inappropriate for the genre when played sounding like acoustic band instruments. One of the first cues I had to work on was a Mardi Gras piece on Booty Island. The original drum-work was really super sparse (especially for that style of party music) and the tempo was really slow. Feeling really nervous about delivering something that would sound acoustic (and of course knowing that the fan-base was rabidly demanding when it came to recreating their favorite game) I grabbed a couple of jazz drum loops and edited something together that seemed appropriate.

Jesse Harlin, the Music Supervisor at LucasArts at the time sent the piece right back and was like "what's going on with the drums? This sounds weird."

Loops just don't make sense when you're writing for something specific--which you should always be--unless the music is built around or specifically about the content of that loop.

I'm so glad he sent it back to me.

At that stage, I knew there was nothing I could do but study. So, I watched hours of Mardi Gras bands playing sets on YouTube and paid specific attention to not just the drumming, but the drummer. I wanted to see when the drummer was bored, when the drummer was having fun, I wanted to see when the drummer was listening to other instruments, and what the drummer did when they knew they could do something fun--I noticed the really good drummers were creative about what they would bang to get interesting fills.

The redo of that track has a drum performance that while a bit too fast/accurate/quantized for a real drummer, is still a drum performance I'm proud of:

You just can't get that from loops, especially the B section of the song where I make the drummer solo on his bells and stands etc.

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This IS a supply and demand issue. The problem, whether you like it or not, is that music is a result of our biology and physics. Everyone has some kind of musical potential simply because they are human and as mentioned by a game developer earlier in this thread, there is not a need for the same kind of workload--there ARE fewer jobs than there are people qualified for those jobs.

We can blame the people who hock themselves for super cheap, we can blame the technology for allowing so many musically inclined people to access a mid-to-decent production polish, but the reality is one: either you're cheap to get cheap jobs or those employers weren't for you anyway; and two: get better, always get better.

There will always be competition, and there will be more competition in the future. Distinguish yourself and be entrepreneurial.

I do not know any music composer working today who doesn't also do one or two OTHER things for money. Even people engaging in the traditional music industry are having these problems.

Nathan is right when he says there is work out there, there IS work out there, but you will always have to be better, know more people, and look more talented than someone else to get it. Be creative about how you make money, and you will make money or don't worry about making money, and let go of your need to have music be your bread winning job.

I don't use loops because choosing the notes is part of what I consider the compositional process--if someone else is choosing the notes, I feel like I'm giving up part of the compositional responsibility to someone else.

Amen! I hate feeling constrained by someone else's decisions about the harmonies or melodies. So if I do use loops, which is rare, it's almost always percussive in nature. Even then I try to change it up quite a bit to make it fit how I (or my client!) want the music to go.

Thanks Dannthr for the background story on that track, studying musicians performing on their actual instrument is a great way of getting inspiration.

I played the MI2SE and I think you did a great job!

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words. There were four of us, if you can believe it, on that remake--it had a 2 hour long OST!

Currently, my day work is teaching Music Production and Interactive Sound Design, when I first started teaching, years ago, I was what I would now call a preset surfer. When I got a synth or an effects plug-in, I would just surf the presets until I found something I kind of liked--and I would mess with settings until I was satisfied somewhat with what came out. I feel like a lot of composers are like this.

The reason was because I didn't really know how to use the software.

I never made the connection to my old hardware rompler because, well, that was a rompler and most of its value is in its presets--until you learn how to program your own patches.

What you have to keep in mind is that the software you use, your DAW, those things are your instrument. In the 21st century music production scene, your instrument is your software.

If you want to be great at that, which is an entirely different pursuit than making money at it, then you have to dedicate yourself to understanding it like an instrumentalist would his/her instrument.

Now that I'm a teacher, I've had to force myself to understand these tools on a deeper level than I had before, and instead of preset surfing--if I know what I want, I build it. That's really powerful and you can never get there if you rely on loops.

Using loops isn't just about musical integrity, it isn't just about being lazy or not lazy, it's about robbing yourself of the opportunity to be able to make that sound yourself OR being able to make something better. You just stole that opportunity away from yourself, robbed yourself of the chance to become a better music producer. Why would you do that?

Maybe it doesn't matter to you, maybe it's just a hobby, that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm all about that. But to me, if I'm going to invest a significant portion of my limited time existing to making music, why wouldn't I want to try to master it?

"Preset surfing" - I'm definitely guilty of that. Not so much on the production/effects side, but very much so as far as software synthesizers go. I feel that by messing with the settings I slowly learn about some aspects of the controls, but this way I probably won't be able to design a sound that I hear in my head from scratch any time soon.

Though I'd say that sometimes you just find a patch (not a loop) that inspires you, you might write a great track using it and it is just like picking up a new guitar from a music store. Nevertheless, I guess the more presets you use/combine on that track, the more it becomes a case of trial and error, rather than a deliberate piece of work.

It has become a horrendous free for all.

300 people working on one game, when 10 years ago it was 5 grads to a basement.

people with a vague interest in gaming and music, think they can score or make games.

Trying to combine music production and sound design into one profession, has also been a complete disaster.

After a decade of pedalling basic courses to hapless wannabes, the industry is awash.

So don't expect things to be better, this is how it has been made to be.

I score games: because when I look at a screenshot, my mind converts it into music.

That's what I do, it's who I am.

I love telling stories through music, and bringing the player closer to it. that's why I write.

Also I scored a ww1 game: it had a 2 hour OST, was written and produced in 6 days, won editors choice awards and cost the producer next to nothing. I loved every minute of it, and I did it alone.

5 grads in a basement? I don't know what you think the game industry was like in 2004, but maybe your memory is skewed because you were only just turning 18 then, but you have some pretty major game releases and not just a few--a lot of major game releases--that most definitely required studio sizes on the order of dozens to the hundreds depending.

Notable game releases in 2004? Final Fantasy XI, EverQuest II, Halo 2, World of Warcraft, Half-Life 2, Unreal Tournament 2004, Far Cry, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Doom 3, and dozens of more medium studio games as well.

This saturation that you're complaining about is one in which you have benefited. About that same time, East West was developing and releasing their East West Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra sample libraries--and it wasn't cheap! Back then, Platinum was going for like three grand!

I mean now, as a student, you can buy EWQLSOPPXP for like $500--$250 if you just go for the Gold edition.

There's your drive to the bottom, man!

The reason that so many people are getting involved is because it's attractive and more and more people are able to do it. I'm glad that you're proud of writing 2 hours of music in 6 days for free, I'm glad you enjoyed it, and I'm glad you got some kind of recognition or acknowledgement for it. But you were empowered by the same factors that empower every (as you call them) "hapless wannabe" that is doing the same thing: writing a whole bunch of music, with almost no time, for "next to nothing."

Hold that Editors Choice Award close because when I listen to your music, all I can think of is "I wonder what he would've sounded like if he had spent 6 days on only 2 minutes of music instead of 2 hours."

i bought platinum in 2006.

gross overmanning, extreme cost, to me that's not in the industry's interests.

low budgets, a few talented, dedicated people, that's more fun to me.

Then it sounds like the state of the industry is ripe for you, the majority of gigs available are looking for someone just like you.