It goes like this, you build a scout ship, then send it to a nearest unexplored planet/system, then build another one and send in another direction. Finally you build several of scout ships and tick "auto explore" option...

You know, maybe it's me, but I find it tedious :D I understand there needs to be some exploration is such games, if nothing else just for the thrill of discovering what is where. But does it have to be so boring and pointless? Or, if it can't be made exciting, maybe exploration should be automatic from the beginning?

Ideas?

In my game, the scout ships play double duty as fast interceptors as well, so they sometimes have to switch roles between lurking over unknown planets and hunting down freighters. Sometimes even, they just ferry ordnance, etc.

I actually like playing with the scouts!

Plus, auto-explore is pretty boring. It just seeks to look at planets you haven't seen, it isn't making an educated guess as to where your enemies may lurk.

I've also got 'other means' to identify what planets may be rich/poor without having to send a scout that far (I mean, we already do that from Earth up to thousands of light years away, and we only send rovers to Mars to determine whether there WAS water at some point...)

Well if space is empty and boring then exploration is boring. What do you find? Planets you may or may not want to colonize, and other races.

You could ditch all that and have everything in sensor/fuel range known. So if you can reach another star system you know what its planets are like. You could then replace exploration with archaeology.

Archaeology would allow you send to research vessels to long dead worlds or strange locations to try and find ancient relics, wealth, and technology. Archaeology takes time and those research ships can be plundered on their way back. So if you find 10,000 gold in an alien vault you still need to get it back to you home world before you get the credits. Pirates and other players could attack the ship and if its undefended it instantly surrenders and switches sides.

Relics might provide permanent bonuses but have long term costs which are unknown so its up to the player to decide if they want to use them or not. The intelligence booster might give you a 20% research bonus but it will be a few decades before people realize its halved your populations growth rate. The bliss computer net might make everyone happy in the empire but each turn there is small but growing chance it will try and take over.

To take a different direction (appropriately to the topic :P), why have unexplored space be safe? Fill empty space with roving horrors and marauding space pirates, any of which could all too easily eat/possess/raid your little exploration ship, and all of which are invisible until you're all but on top of them, and exploration becomes a dangerous proposition.

Is it worth sending a scout to that little planet out there? It might have useful resources, and you don't want the enemy to reach it, but you don't have a warp gate set up near to it, meaning that you have to fly the most of the way. Your warships are already stretched thin holding and expanding your empire--maybe you could spare one or two as an escort... but is that likely to be enough...?

Perhaps you won't encounter anything. Perhaps you can run from anything that you do encounter. Perhaps not.

Archaeology

Yes... I was thinking about archeology too, but first we need to solve the problem of simply exploring new planets (first visit), for an overall geological survey (poor/rich) and to check if there is an enemy colony already. That's the thing we have to deal with first.

To take a different direction (appropriately to the topic ), why have unexplored space be safe? Fill empty space with roving horrors and marauding space pirates, any of which could all too easily eat/possess/raid your little exploration ship, and all of which are invisible until you're all but on top of them, and exploration becomes a dangerous proposition.

That's standard In every single game (space 4x) I send these small ships and they are eaten by something sooner or later Exploration always is dangerous but it makes no practical sense (just statistics, you sent 8 ships, 4 are eaten, 2 destryoed by other races, 2 return). There is no thirll, no choice, no nothing...

Is it worth sending a scout to that little planet out there?

Yes Scout ships are cheap, it's no brainer.

Besides, you HAVE TO visit that little planet at least once to check if there is an enemy, or if there is some wormhole or anything. So, making scout ships expensive would not solve anything really (plus then you would send cheap frigates or whatever you have).

Thousands of years before you have the capability to visit a nearby star, you will have seen it. Astronomers will have measured it, worked out it's mass, worked out the probability of planets, probability of life, etc. etc. etc.

So you shouldn't just be sending out scouts at random, you should have data available to make value estimations and informed decisions.

This is a part of the game design developers should consider and implement. I hate the black map syndrome. Makes no sense to me.

Then I think developers should start allowing technology to aid you. Deep space probes, space telescopes, gravitic anomoly detectors, etc. Probably a lot more expensive to develop and deploy than a few scouts, but cover larger areas of space.

Then there are the hidden suprises that make the exploring worthwhile, the ancient human head in the sands of a desert planet. The crashed alien space craft full of really nice toys, .... or really horrible face hugging aliens.

Yes Scout ships are cheap, it's no brainer.

Besides, you HAVE TO visit that little planet at least once to check if there is an enemy, or if there is some wormhole or anything. So, making scout ships expensive would not solve anything really (plus then you would send cheap frigates or whatever you have).

That's exactly it. Scout ships should be neither cheap nor expensive. There's a middle ground where you should debate whether it's worth spending a few turns to build one on a new planet, or one or two turns on a productive one.

What makes exploration in non-space games interesting? The only thing that came to mind was games like Heroes of Might and Magic and Age of Wonders. And the big thing there is that you explore with heroes, who gain experience and items (as well as encounter danger, etc) I think this helps place a sense of attachment to the scouts, as well as a risk reward mechanic.

Perhaps you can take some of that, you mentioned earlier about having everything be in fleets, so you could have fleet commanders who gain experience / levels / artifacts. Granted in the beginning the fleet commander would be uh, commanding a single scout. (or perhaps do away with small cheap scout ships, and instead go with the Enterprise and it's five year turn mission to explore new worlds.)

First, I would like to say that you are doing a great job of questioning many of the 'standard' 4X mechanics or styles of play. It is always a good thing to question why.

Second, in a game I was working on about 2 years ago scouting was more of a mini game. All of the systems and planets are viewable, but the exact data of the planet required the player to buy it (through contacts) or scan it.

If you wanted to remove the need for scouts change the way 'scout ships' have to function. Change scout ships from a ship that must move from its creation point to a point of exploration to a ship that can build probe and launch them. The catch would be that only a scout ship can receive the probes data.

@TechnoGoth The archeology idea is inline with the mechanic / mini-game that I created.

I think we need to distinguish two types of exploration:

* charting space & probing for enemies (to find routes to planets and enemy colonies)

* survey (to find out what's on the planet)

Thousands of years before you have the capability to visit a nearby star, you will have seen it. Astronomers will have measured it, worked out it's mass, worked out the probability of planets, probability of life, etc. etc. etc.

So you shouldn't just be sending out scouts at random, you should have data available to make value estimations and informed decisions.

Yes... I feel it could be an answer...

This is a part of the game design developers should consider and implement. I hate the black map syndrome. Makes no sense to me.

Actually, in most/all games I have seen you see all the systems from the start (that they exist and colour of the star). So, there is no black map. You need to scout the systems for exact planets, what is on the planets, routes to the planets (if the games uses paths) and if there is an enemy/monster.

That's exactly it. Scout ships should be neither cheap nor expensive. There's a middle ground where you should debate whether it's worth spending a few turns to build one on a new planet, or one or two turns on a productive one.

I disagree :) You have to scan ALL nearby systems for security if nothing else. Actually, losing a scout ship is the best outcome (that's what you look for), it means the system has a space monster or that you encountered another empire (which is the most valuable information, far more important than if the planet is good for colonization).

What makes exploration in non-space games interesting?

Yeah, I think expolration is not fun in itself. And probably it does not have to be. The whole point is that you don't know everything from the start, that you don't know the whole setup, that there are surprises waiting (and people LOVE surprises :))

First, I would like to say that you are doing a great job of questioning many of the 'standard' 4X mechanics or styles of play. It is always a good thing to question why.

Yes, I love this form of procastration :) It's so much easier to question things than to implement them :D