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Women vs Tropes in Video Games

Started by March 08, 2013 03:09 AM
81 comments, last by AoS 11 years, 8 months ago

So this finally came out today and honestly I'm not sure why she needed 6000$ much less 160000$ if all her videos are gonna be like this.

The delivery is boring, the so called research is shallow, she goes off topic, and the production quality is low.

That said I agree with her general idea, DID is a boring and overdone basis for a plot and its probably so common because of patriarchal values.

Honestly the only value I see in this video is just adding to the general critical mass of feminism, although not that much, rather than something that's new and brilliant and impressive and needed a kickstarter.

And frankly its some of her better work, slightly less self contradictory, slightly less cherry picking.

So this finally came out today and honestly I'm not sure why she needed 6000$

My personal living expenses are around $2000/month, so $6K funding would barely let me focus on a project for 3 months full time.

Of course this varies hugely depending on where you live in the world, but in a typical Western city, it isn't very much money at all... Producing video content is hard, time-consuming work. Three months expenses doesn't seem like much money at all, so it's a good thing she was over-funded on kickstarter.

As for the content... I haven't watched it yet, but in my experience, many post-women's-liberation feminists are often boring and shallow and irrelevant, or are just typical misguided "social justice activists", or in the worst instances, are misandrists, so I'm not exactly her target audience (note: not saying anything about the videos, I haven't watched them / don't know anything about their author, just that feminism in general seems like a successful movement that finished a long time ago, not something relevant to me now).

I grew up in a world where both genders are equal (and other/non genders, and gays, etc, too), and I don't work on games based around gender roles, so it's not really an interesting topic to me either.

I'm sure there is a large demographic that probably do find this interesting though, such as her 7k kickstarter backers, so the only thing that matters is if they like the content.

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So this finally came out today and honestly I'm not sure why she needed 6000$

My personal living expenses are around $2000/month, so $6K funding would barely let me focus on a project for 3 months full time.

Of course this varies hugely depending on where you live in the world, but in a typical Western city, it isn't very much money at all... Producing video content is hard, time-consuming work. Three months expenses doesn't seem like much money at all, so it's a good thing she was over-funded on kickstarter.

I once calculated that my personal expenses amounted to 5000$ a year but then I mostly need nothing but cheap packaged food and an internet connection. And rent on a serviceable apartment is like 250$. So I suppose I'm a little biased.

I've done some small videos, some up to 20 minutes, although it was mostly recording youtube videos of my game project, but I know a lot of people who do a lot of youtube videos, and its not hard time consuming work ITHO. Note that the you didn't watch the video, so the quality wouldn't be known to you. It looks like a standard youtube hobbyist video to me.

As for the content... I haven't watched it yet, but in my experience, many post-women's-liberation feminists are often boring and shallow and irrelevant, or are just typical misguided "social justice activists", or in the worst instances, are misandrists, so I'm not exactly her target audience (note: not saying anything about the videos, I haven't watched them / don't know anything about their author, just that feminism in general seems like a successful movement that finished a long time ago, not something relevant to me now).

I grew up in a world where both genders are equal (and other/non genders, and gays, etc, too), and I don't work on games based around gender roles, so it's not really an interesting topic to me either.

I'm sure there is a large demographic that probably do find this interesting though, such as her 7k kickstarter backers, so the only thing that matters is if they like the content.

I wouldn't say men and women are equal, for objective things like pay, but also for sexual violence statistics and other things. I do think certain feminist complaints are silly.

I wouldn't get caught dead on a feminist blog/forum saying what you just said though, they would probably ban you inside a few days.

She got $160,000 to make this? As a single video or a series, that's insane. If it's that easy to make money I need to set up a kickstarter for myself.

I'm not sure where the money went, unless she needed to buy licensing rights to show the game characters and clips and/or she lived off of the money while producing the videos.

I'm not impressed with the analysis or research, but I think that the format is probably about right for this sort of thing-- it just happens to be something that won't engross the viewer unless they're already interested.

This kind of inquiry nearly always falls into "cherry picking", though that shouldn't diminish the discussion she's initiating. I won't make a broader judgment of her thesis without watching more videos, which I probably will not do, but what I saw gave me the impression of a freshman lit essay: unpolished, a little shallow, a bit self-indulgent, and not all that significant. Her kickstarter success is far more interesting than the thing that she produced.

-------R.I.P.-------

Selective Quote

~Too Late - Too Soon~

She got $160,000 to make this? As a single video or a series, that's insane. If it's that easy to make money I need to set up a kickstarter for myself.

I'm not sure where the money went, unless she needed to buy licensing rights to show the game characters and clips and/or she lived off of the money while producing the videos.

I'm not impressed with the analysis or research, but I think that the format is probably about right for this sort of thing-- it just happens to be something that won't engross the viewer unless they're already interested.

This kind of inquiry nearly always falls into "cherry picking", though that shouldn't diminish the discussion she's initiating. I won't make a broader judgment of her thesis without watching more videos, which I probably will not do, but what I saw gave me the impression of a freshman lit essay: unpolished, a little shallow, a bit self-indulgent, and not all that significant. Her kickstarter success is far more interesting than the thing that she produced.

To be fair she only asked for $6000. Any other money not needed to make the product could be considered profit by Kickstarter. I think that is somewhat of a failing of KS, though.

The red parts are pretty much my opinion, but you said it better.

Yeah, the kickstarter money it got is what really surprised me, but hey if people want to fund it that's completely fine. (although it does make me consider kickstarting my game…) There’s nothing really original or controversial in the video, like she says, the damsel in distress is very common because it appeals to the traditionally male demographic and requires very little writing to set up the character’s motivation. I'd like to see the second part, because most of the feminist writing I've seen is based on very old games like Mario or Legend of Zelda, and I don't think it's particularly useful to read too much into old games with very little in the way of story. Video games, especially when it comes to narratives have evolved a great deal from the early days, just like movies have. I'm not saying that there isn't a lot of sexism in video games, (because there is) but the damsel in distress thing is really just a case of lazy writing.

The damsel in distress isn’t even entirely exclusive to female characters, in fact there’s a very similar trope involving male characters, although the particulars are different. There are probably just as many if not more games where the hero's main motivation is based on a background male character being an "object" in the plot, although these stories usually involve the villain actually killing some background male character who is important to the hero. Just change princess/wife/girlfriend with father/brother/friend/mentor and the two tropes are pretty much identical in terms of how they play out. There is some gender distinction because the idea of rescuing is more often used with an apparently weaker woman or child, while it is more common for the hero to be driven to instead avenge the death of the older male mentor, but ultimately the two cases are very similar.

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.... so I'm not exactly her target audience

Not her daddy OR the boy that dumped her in grade school?

D.I.D. may be stale, but it's still around because it works. Boys like to fantasize about rescuing girls, so they like to play games that let them act out those fantasies.

Don't waste time on people like this. They want to change the world to suit their views and they never stop to think about how miserable they'd be if they actually got their way.

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There are ten kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

I think one interesting thing to note is that quests are really of limited value. There aren't that many things you can achieve by going on a quest. Rescue and vengeance, and regaining lost property are pretty much it. And property includes resources, like the quest to restart the water in The Land Before Time.

I wouldn't say men and women are equal, for objective things like pay, but also for sexual violence statistics and other things.

I just meant I was surrounded in equality in my own upbringing, e.g. I had two single parents, both worked, both were educated to the same level, both had the same responsibilities, and they never taught me to believe in gender roles and restrictions.

Yes, of course many people aren't raised in this way and so statistics still reveal discrimination is present in the wider world.

I've done some small videos, some up to 20 minutes, although it was mostly recording youtube videos of my game project, but I know a lot of people who do a lot of youtube videos, and its not hard time consuming work ITHO. Note that the you didn't watch the video, so the quality wouldn't be known to you. It looks like a standard youtube hobbyist video to me.

I watched the first 30 seconds -- graphic design an animation for the intro, recording a heap of various game footage, setting up the filming equipment, backdrop, make-up, and then editing -- it alone looks like it could be days of work for one person...

I once calculated that my personal expenses amounted to 5000$ a year but then I mostly need nothing but cheap packaged food and an internet connection. And rent on a serviceable apartment is like 250$.

Again, it depends where you live. Here in Melbourne, the minimum I'd be able to go for rent would be around $1000/month, and having a quick look at San Fran (where the author is), it looks similar in price.

Where are you that you can get an apartment for under $60 a week?

I wouldn't say men and women are equal, for objective things like pay, but also for sexual violence statistics and other things.

I just meant I was surrounded in equality in my own upbringing, e.g. I had two single parents, both worked, both were educated to the same level, both had the same responsibilities, and they never taught me to believe in gender roles and restrictions.

Yes, of course many people aren't raised in this way and so statistics still reveal discrimination is present in the wider world.

>

I've done some small videos, some up to 20 minutes, although it was mostly recording youtube videos of my game project, but I know a lot of people who do a lot of youtube videos, and its not hard time consuming work ITHO. Note that the you didn't watch the video, so the quality wouldn't be known to you. It looks like a standard youtube hobbyist video to me.

I watched the first 30 seconds -- graphic design an animation for the intro, recording a heap of various game footage, setting up the filming equipment, backdrop, make-up, and then editing -- it alone looks like it could be days of work for one person...

I once calculated that my personal expenses amounted to 5000$ a year but then I mostly need nothing but cheap packaged food and an internet connection. And rent on a serviceable apartment is like 250$.

Again, it depends where you live. Here in Melbourne, the minimum I'd be able to go for rent would be around $1000/month, and having a quick look at San Fran (where the author is), it looks similar in price.

Where are you that you can get an apartment for under $60 a week?

I will defer to you on the video creation, although I may ask my sister as well since she has a degree in that. But note that it took her 6 months to make this first video. Well its been 6 months since her kickstarter was funded.

I live in Missouri, and you can get 250$-350$ housing in KC, STL where I live, and Columbia where I went to Mizzou for a bit. Possibly even less depending on the details.

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