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This is the future of video games? No wonder I've been buying so many board games lately.

Started by March 06, 2013 11:43 PM
111 comments, last by Shannon Barber 11 years, 6 months ago

And yet, people still bought it.


This is the part that makes me a bit sad. Why would they spend the money needed to make for a smooth launch when it doesn't matter? - people will still buy. There will be some bad press, a lot of grumbling etc., but does that really impact buying habits for the next game?

I don't know, but I do know that my buying habits have changed in the last couple years. I personally very rarely buy AAA games anymore, and when I do I make sure to pass on games with even a hint of these types of shenanigans.

Which is a shame, since I would have gladly plopped down money for SC, D3 and many other recent titles.

As for it being the future of games, sadly the answer is yes, for major games.For the projects I've worked on and the stats I have seen piracy is normally 90% to 95% for major titles. I have watched as my own work hit a 93% piracy rate on our server telemetry. Always-online requirements and SaaS are one of the best ways to combat piracy. For some reason people don't complain about it any more with Valve

Because Steam(mostly) does it right. I don't really mind DRM per se, I just hate crappy, bugged out DRM. Which is to say %95 of DRM. I don't consider Steam to be more inconvenient than "please insert disc to play". If most DRM looked like Steam, I don't think there would be a lot of hate for it.

"You can't say no to waffles" - Toxic Hippo

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^ I agree with everyone except frob. And seriously OP, you didn't knew the new SimCity would require an always on connection and its a pure (more or less) multiplayer game?

I have a full time job, and generally don't spend hours and hours pouring over news sites and watching every last scrap of information pouring in on development of many games. Sure, I knew it was a highly social centred game, and was heavily focused on the online aspect, but it isn't like any of the devs were screaming:

"Yeah, and if the servers go down, you're totally boned and have zero access to any element of the game... And they're going to go down a lot."

I test games professionally as a near-shore contractor, and have dealt with dozens of games with highly social focused designs. Generally every game that comes across my desk with a "Single player Social" design aspect (Where game play is primarily single player, but with general social interaction as more of a meta-game) has a very simple design of when the network dies you carry on with your single player experience, and feel only slightly cut off from the rest of the game play.

When we find a game that utterly fails and craps itself when it can't see the server, we log that as a bug "User is unable to play game".

There is really Nothing in the game play design that would limit a user from working primarily offline. Worse, with their cloud only save they have this fun aspect where the game will happily Over Write Your stuff! Got back on awhile ago to find that part of what I had been doing when it was giving me 'warnings' of not being able to see the server was gone. "No great loss, I changed my mind and don't actually want to expand my city like that" was my thought when I saw the problem. Played some more, rebuilt the expansion in a more sensible manner, switched to another city in the region and returned to my first one: Oh look, that crappy expansion I decided I didn't want, and built better version of? Yeah, that one is back, and all my far better expansion has now disappeared.

Bugs and flaws like that are the kind of stuff I expect a first week newbie at a testing house to spot and point out.

(But in general, I'm less than impressed with the city building in this newest edition. Their curved street planning is wonderful, but they've horribly botched it by apparently sticking with rectangular lots, while making zone design even less informative about expansion and growth than previous titles. Where is the setting to view entire lot sizes so I have half an idea of how things are growing? I was playing heavily with circles and arcs, only to find out later that the high density stuff won't actually expand inside the huge circular road sections because their rectangular footprints would overlap and they block each other instead of fudging area with flexible building foundations)

Old Username: Talroth
If your signature on a web forum takes up more space than your average post, then you are doing things wrong.

People whine and complain about games that pull this kind of thing, and yet people still buy those offending games. Look at Diablo 3. Hideous launch problems, constant whining about how this is an abomination that must be ended... and yet one of the largest single-day sales records ever. Really? I mean, not to trot out the dead old D3 horse again, but this SimCity thing is the same exact thing, the same exact user abuse. And yet, people still bought it. As long as people continue to buy this shit, they are going to continue to stuff it down our throats. We're rewarding bad behavior. And yes, I'm guilty. I did buy D3, even against my better judgement. That was the last AAA game I've bought, and that will probably be the last game I ever buy from a AAA publisher. I just won't reward this stupid crap any more. Despite the fact I own the previous SimCity games, and despite the fact that I enjoyed the hell out of them, EA (and Actiblizz, and Ubisoft, and every other asshole company that wants to treat me like a criminal and disallow me from playing games I purchased) won't get any more of my money. I'm done with it, I'm done with them.

/soapbox

I didn't play diablo 3 on launch day, but I did find the whole launch process to be absolutely hilarious. You would think a company that runs one of the largest MMOs in the world could LAUNCH a game without massive issues. Guess not.

I did buy and play Diablo 3, I was very disappointed in the product. It was not a game that I found enjoyable. It is no longer installed, and after hitting max level, I didn't even bother with the top level difficulty because the idea of running through the EXACT same maps repeatedly offered me none of the replay that Diablo 2 still has. Nor did the itemization offer any sort of variation, due to the limited stats and applicability of runes, etc.

Meanwhile Diablo 2 is still installed smile.png

I'm not a Sim CIty person, I have Sim City 2000 somewhere around here, but it was not a game I enjoyed much, just not my kind of a game. Nonetheless, the idea that it would be an ONLINE "MMO" style game is actually quite startling.

Another prime example of horrible online issues: Splinter Cell. A game whose single player requires a constant online connection to Ubisoft's servers. Its great fun to lose a bunch of progress simply because someone at Ubi decided to reboot the server you're connected to and thus get booted out of your single player game.

Speaking of Steam:

While I'm not a huge fan of steam they have managed to CONSISTENTLY avoid these same issues that are being experienced right now by people. Borderlands 2? No issues at all playing it on launch day. Nor any of the other games I've bought through steam, with the exception of some of the early ones, like HL2.

So how does steam manage it? Here's a hint: Look at the URLs in your network snooper sometime. You might be surprised to know that they use the amazon cloud to scale automatically. Instead of, you know, having a bunch of servers at a data center somewhere.

So is this trend going to end? No. If anything it will become more common. My only HOPE is that these companies... EA, Activision, etc. will hire some people who actually know what the hell they're doing (with relation to cloud/scalability) and not do the typical game developer thing of rediscovering the same ideas the rest of the software industry figured out decades prior.

In time the project grows, the ignorance of its devs it shows, with many a convoluted function, it plunges into deep compunction, the price of failure is high, Washu's mirth is nigh.

Trying to get a refund on my online purchase... their game info page says it runs on a Mac, however after I purchased and installed Origin, it said Windows only. I'll stick to Steam / Humble Indy Bundle for "PC" games from now on.

This sort of thing used to bother me, it really doesn't anymore. Why is that? Well, because the minute I see a single-player game requiring a permanent connection, well that game may as well not exist for me, it just leaves my brain and the possibility of buying it just disappears completely.

My curiosity for the trend in general is for 5+ years down the road. I mean, I still regularly play games from the mid 90s... when its the year 2025 and no one plays this simcity game anymore, will there still be a server to connect to? And if not, I really hope EA and those like them have the brainpower to realize that releasing a version that doesn't require said server for a bargain basement price is still good business seeing as it won't make a dime without the server.

EDIT: Just looked over a page of the best selling pc games of all time by copies sold. I realize you can't draw conclusions about an industry based on one game, but my god, how in the world has Minecraft sold that many copies? It has no real DRM (at least, not in the sense we tend to understand the term), so if DRM is the only thing keeping pirates from ruining everything, how is it the 8th best selling game of all time?

I'm working on a game! It's called "Spellbook Tactics". I'd love it if you checked it out, offered some feedback, etc. I am very excited about my progress thus far and confident about future progress as well!

http://infinityelephant.wordpress.com

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if DRM is the only thing keeping pirates from ruining everything, how is it the 8th best selling game of all time?

Because, as we all know, reducing piracy is not the same as increasing sales. They're not opposites mellow.png

And Minecraft didn't sell for 70-90 dollars. Plus, Minecraft is a different kettle of fish. Minecraft could have had DRM or been online-only, I think it would still have sold that many copies.

And this is why .... A lot of people don't care about online only and DRM. I mean when you give up on the politics and just want to play the game, well you'll forget about the DRM. I don't even know what DRM is other than an acronym. I don't have to know, I just know that when I want to play a game, I turn my computer on and start it up.

I'm getting sick to death of piracy and hackers. I want the industry to move to deployment and operational models that make piracy and hacking a rare thing rather than the usual thing. There might be some hickups, but I can put up with that.

Disclaimer: I work for EA also, but also unrelated to this project.
While my feelings about always-on DRM are congruent with many of you, that aside server problems are to be expected on launch day. It happened with Diablo 3. It happened with GW2. It happened with Castle Story. I can't (off the top of my head) think of a game that had zero server problems on launch day (although I'm sure they're out there). Complaining about always-on DRM is one thing (although one could argue that hey, you knowingly bought the game). But if you buy a game, developed by any studio, that you know needs to connect to a server expecting not to see any problems on launch day you're living in a fantasy world. Yes, it's bad. Yes, it shouldn't happen. But you're an early adopter just as you're an early adopter if you buy a piece of hardware on launch not waiting for reviews to come out. You'll not only wait in line, but maybe find out that the store is out of stock and notice other issues with the product first. Let's be realistic.

But if you buy a game, developed by any studio, that you know needs to connect to a server expecting not to see any problems on launch day you're living in a fantasy world. Yes, it's bad. Yes, it shouldn't happen. But you're an early adopter just as you're an early adopter if you buy a piece of hardware on launch not waiting for reviews to come out. You'll not only wait in line, but maybe find out that the store is out of stock and notice other issues with the product first. Let's be realistic.

I'm sorry, since when was buying a game on release considered being an 'early adotpter'?
What kind of bullshit reasoning is that?

Hardware can't be beta tested by large groups of people to find problems; games can. You can figure out load issues, check the server even WORKS before the game is released.

More to the point if I buy a graphics card and it doesn't work properly I can generally send it back for a refund - if you've brought this game, which hardly works at all, you are shit out of luck as you won't be getting your money back any time soon.

Trying to write it off as 'oh, you tried to play on release day, you are an early adopter, its a none issue' is frankly bullshit.

Basically all you've said here is "don't bother pre-ordering a game - it probably wont work so why give them your money".

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