uhm I actually used to prefer tasm to other assemblers,
but that was the old dos days...

I don''t see point in making asm games for dos these days, using VESA and stuff?
Why not use DirectX or whatever?

quote: Original post by kdrn
uhm I actually used to prefer tasm to other assemblers,
but that was the old dos days...

I am interested in making dos programs as well as win32 programs, both of which TASM 5 is very good at making. Why use a clumsy Microcrap product?

quote:
I don''t see point in making asm games for dos these days, using VESA and stuff?

Dont you? Thats a pity... for you.

quote:
Why not use DirectX or whatever?

Because I am learning. I plan to start with the basics, then move on to more advanced things when I know more. I wont consider using anything more pre-built than TASM until I understand how they work(that includes DX). I hope you understand, having been once young and stupid(back in the old dos days) like me.

So, since we are chatting...
Tell me about this game of yours.
Just out of interest, if it has so much assembler in it anyway, why bother using msvc++ at all(I have used it, and it is nothing special)? Is it just a matter of ease of writing, or is there some deeper reason?


"Of all the things I''ve lost, I miss my mind the most."
Goober

quote: Original post by goober

Because I am learning. I plan to start with the basics...

The basics eh? Thats cool and all, but Assembly is NOT basic. Its as close to CPU/OS/BIOS as you can get. To start with the basics, there is actually a language called BASIC that is excellent for teaching logic flow and such things. Here's an example why a High-level language is better than Assembly; suppose you want to perform one action, say printing a string of characters to the screen. In assembly you are going to have to write several instructions to do this. Assuming you've initialized your DATA segmentinto DS, it would go something like this:

MOV DX, offset string1
MOV AH, 9
INT 21H

or in C++:

cout << string1

I would say that if you're not familiar with programming, you shouldn't start with assembly.







Edited by - deadlinegrunt on October 26, 2001 5:15:59 AM

quote: Original post by goober
I feel a bit silly getting my own thread off topic!!!

If ANY beginner assemblers(Microcrap lovers or any others. MASM/TASM code can be converted. ) are interested in joining with me to just do some simple game stuff (ie make the basic engines, use some vesa graphics, etc), give me a post.

I still reckon TASM is teh way to go...

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."
Goober

Well I am a beginner in assembly, I have used MASM, NASM but I prefer the NASM. I have TASM because I was learning Assembly for win32 programming, but pretty much a very newbie in assembly.

As a learning purpose I would be interested in joining you. I will send you a mail later.

Well the above AP is me. ** Not any more **


Edited by - deadlinegrunt on October 26, 2001 5:17:43 AM

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster

Original post by goober

Because I am learning. I plan to start with the basics…

The basics eh? Thats cool and all, but Assembly is NOT basic. Its as close to CPU/OS/BIOS as you can get.


You obviously dont know what the basics are. The basics(to me) means the actions taking place at the lowest/base (hence "basic")level. That means assembler(or machine code).

quote:
To start with the basics, there is actually a language called BASIC that is excellent for teaching logic flow and such things.

I have used it. It sux. Before I began to use assembler, I didn't understand what it was doing. Now that I have some understanding of how the machine runs(through using assembler ) I can do much more in BASIC than I could before.

quote:
Here's an example why a High-level language is better than Assembly; suppose you want to perform one action, say printing a string of characters to the screen. In assembly you are going to have to write several instructions to do this. Assuming you've initialized your DATA segmentinto DS, it would go something like this:

MOV DX, offset string1MOV AH, 9INT 21H   

or in C++:

cout<   

Sort of ties in with what I was saying above.
You are REALLY game trying to tell me that a hll is "better" just because it takes less instructions! Ever thought of plugging "speed", "efficiency" and "size" into your "better=less instructions" formula?
Besides, I have used c++ and it is not all that much less code than assembler, and it is often more obscure because of the way code gets squashed up with "<<"s and "->"s and "{}"s.

quote:
I would say that if you're not familiar with programming, you shouldn't start with assembly.

I AM familiar with programming. I have been using BASIC since I was 13, Delphi since I was 14 and c++ since I was 16(even though I havent concentrated on it)!
I started using assembler this year, and have learned more than with the other 3 languages combined!


The overall theme of this post is:
*Dont mistake "basic" for "less instructions"
*Dont mistake "learning" for "not familiar with programming"

And if I seem a bit harsh/blunt in this post, it is nothign personal, it is just the way I am.

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."
Goober

Edited by - goober on October 20, 2001 4:50:41 AM

Hi, i know basic,c and c++...and i was interested in beginning game programming,graphics programming.. and as goober says the cool way to begin is with assembler and low level programming like in the old days... I would like to get the skills that people had in those days and program an arcade like the ones from the eighties.....i dont mind that my games don´t run in windows(by now), i just want to know how things work.....

oy, I came here looking for some assembly info, now I''m lost.

I know C++ pretty well and am interested in atleast looking into assemby, can you just like tell me what to look for, free stuff wise as I hove NO budget here. Any free compilers, tutorials, reference, preferably stuff that isnt microsoft dependant as it would more likely be free, maybe a Linux compiler, or is there one?

I''m lost.............help.........

Can someone just explain the idea in assembly as in what I need (what compilers are theyre free/pay for) and what I need to know (where can I learn for no $$).

Cuz my whole C++ education till now is free, then again I was lucky enough to get my hands on Visual Studio.......well.....97'' but atleast it''s something.

quote: Original post by Sinner_Zero
oy, I came here looking for some assembly info, now I''m lost.

I know C++ pretty well and am interested in atleast looking into assemby, can you just like tell me what to look for, free stuff wise as I hove NO budget here. Any free compilers, tutorials, reference, preferably stuff that isnt microsoft dependant as it would more likely be free, maybe a Linux compiler, or is there one?

I''m lost.............help.........

Can someone just explain the idea in assembly as in what I need (what compilers are theyre free/pay for) and what I need to know (where can I learn for no $$).

Cuz my whole C++ education till now is free, then again I was lucky enough to get my hands on Visual Studio.......well.....97'' but atleast it''s something.

Visual Studio already does assembly inline, so just look up the syntax for it in the help files.

speaking of which I hate those damn help files.

one q while I''m on the topic (anyone else? heh) of help files, where the hell at the online MSDN library is the MFC reference? cuz I think the one with MSVC++ 5 might be outdated, or am I just crazy?

Sinner_Zero: Get yourself over to google and search for "Art of Assembly" a text from UC Riverside - then start reading - keep doing google searches - there''s plenty of material on the www regarding win32 assembly - MASM,NASM & TASM. As for MSVC - the keyword is "__asm" - also check out Izcelion''s tuts and links and Elicz''s too.

Good luck