(I probably sound so naive and clueless when I say stuff like this but what the hell...)

This question is the sort of question that's the reason I believe that concepts or ideas are the "start" or the fundamental basis of existence. Prerequisites such as order, external influence, design, or time aren't needed. What you see in our universe is just one of a very few set of rules that would likely work to create anything close to what you see as well as a very small subset of all possibilities.

I think religion is an abomination of the human race.

Gotta wonder what our laws would be like if all the various religions of the world never came to be. Perhaps something based on competition and natural selection instead of altruism.

I still haven't bothered to look up on string theory ;D
I'll have to take a look sometime.

Just read Stephen Hawking's books, A breif history of time and The grand design, first. They're short and easy to digest. He will motivate you.
[/quote]

Thanks, I'll be sure to look that up!

Gotta wonder what our laws would be like if all the various religions of the world never came to be. Perhaps something based on competition and natural selection instead of altruism.

Why on earth would you think that, and how is your speculation of such a world without religion any different from society today?

(I probably sound so naive and clueless when I say stuff like this but what the hell...)

This question is the sort of question that's the reason I believe that concepts or ideas are the "start" or the fundamental basis of existence. Prerequisites such as order, external influence, design, or time aren't needed. What you see in our universe is just one of a very few set of rules that would likely work to create anything close to what you see as well as a very small subset of all possibilities.

[quote name='CryoGenesis' timestamp='1347031942' post='4977676']
I think religion is an abomination of the human race.

Gotta wonder what our laws would be like if all the various religions of the world never came to be. Perhaps something based on competition and natural selection instead of altruism.
[/quote]

I guess I could change that to:
I think religion, even though it was useful in the past, is now not needed in modern society and if used wrongly (AKA Literally) it is an abomination.

I think that something can come from nothing. I believe that our known universe can come from nothing. But, it's just the laws of physics and how it is practically dictated that I feel there is something missing there. I'm sure someone will figure it out in the future.

Gotta wonder what our laws would be like if all the various religions of the world never came to be. Perhaps something based on competition and natural selection instead of altruism.

You mean capitalism?

[quote name='kseh' timestamp='1347041719' post='4977771']
Gotta wonder what our laws would be like if all the various religions of the world never came to be. Perhaps something based on competition and natural selection instead of altruism.

You mean capitalism?
[/quote]
Haha, love this ;D

Probably would also include Utilitarianism

The best theory for the Big Bang is contained within M-Theory, a consolidation of the various forms of String Theory. In M-Theory the universe (as we understand it) "began" when two Branes (11-dimensional constructs is the best way i know to describe them, they themselves may not have 11-dimensions of definition, but exist in a 11-dimensional existence... or thats how i understand it) collided. The result of that collision, intersection, meeting, whatever you want to call it, was the formation of this universe. I say "this" universe, because Branes may collide many times and "produce" multiple universes, each taking form based on the characteristics of that collision (i.e., the set of laws/variables that govern our universe). Where the hell the Branes came from... I have no idea. I suspect reality is tricky that way ;)

(sorry for going further off topic)

[quote name='kseh' timestamp='1347041719' post='4977771']
Gotta wonder what our laws would be like if all the various religions of the world never came to be. Perhaps something based on competition and natural selection instead of altruism.

Why on earth would you think that, and how is your speculation of such a world without religion any different from society today?
[/quote]
It's just a guess, really. I suppose ultimately leaders might come to recognize sources of disorder within their societies and create measures to limit such disorder. But given that religions play such a large part on our foundations of right and wrong it seems to me that if they never developed what we view as right and wrong could potentially be quite different.

I guess I could change that to:
I think religion, even though it was useful in the past, is now not needed in modern society and if used wrongly (AKA Literally) it is an abomination.[/quote]
What would "used wrongly" mean if your sense of right and wrong wasn't influenced by existing religions?

As for modern society, new systems of right and wrong continue to emerge, their longevity to be tested by time. For example, "thou shalt not post discussions of religion or take discussions off topic" are treasured values around here that... crap, I better stop now

It's just a guess, really. I suppose ultimately leaders might come to recognize sources of disorder within their societies and create measures to limit such disorder. But given that religions play such a large part on our foundations of right and wrong it seems to me that if they never developed what we view as right and wrong could potentially be quite different.

The problem with this is the assumption that morals and altruism are religiously-derived. They are clearly not, rather religious texts echo timeless basic moral principles that are pretty much innate and pre-date religion by a long shot.

My triangle analogy comes to mind again. That triangles are trivial things, yet many wonderful, non-trivial correlations, lines, circles etc come from those three random points in space. Just like it's designed or "fine tuned" to be like that. I think no.one thinks that there is anything designed in 3 points.

So maybe this whole complexity and "fine tunedness" of the world is just our illusion.

Plus most self balancing and self controlling systems imply some clever mind behind those systems, although most of them are just a primitive feedback systems, or as simple in principle as a mass-spring system.

And why fine tuned? Maybe if the constants were different, some other dynamic equilibrium would have evolved and we would "live" in a totally different universe.


Please tell me if this triangle analogy or my whole triangle "argument" sucks.