I just feel like venting. As a lead programmer on a somewhat large freeware project it seems that every time I think I finish with a feature, the game designer comes along and says "Nope, we need to do xxxxx more things with that". Grrrrrrr...... Oh well, back to the compiler for me. On another note, I will say that our project would not only be dead without our designer, but it never would have gotten off the ground. I find it amusing when people flame those offering their services exclusively as a designer. The position is absolutely critical. Edited by - RedRocket on October 2, 2001 11:34:58 PM

quote: Original post by RedRocket
On another note, I will say that our project would not only be dead without our designer, but it never would have gotten off the ground. I find it amusing when people flame those offering their services exclusively as a designer. The position is absolutely critical.

I completely agree with you here. Designing is harder than it sounds. Sometimes being a designer & programmer combined can be too much work. Anyone who disagrees with me has never tried designing.




-Forcas

"Elvis is alive. He is Barney the purple dinosaur. He is the pied piper that leads our children into the wages of sin and eternal damnation."

Absolutely yes, especially when the game designer (as in your case) acts as project manager or producer... in that case it´s actually his job to be annoying.

I am usually somewhat careful of people who are *only* designers, because they are usually (from my experience) not skilled in any other are. It might be true that a full design is just as much work as programming, but the design doc should be written in advance (most of it at least), so that should leave the designer free to do some other work as well.
Another problem with some of these so-called designers is that they ended up with design because they don´t have any other game-related skills, which usually means that they aren´t especially good at design either... (especially if you´re serious about getting into the industry you absolutely have to have another area of expertise).

The designer/producer combination is especially critical, as, like you said, projects live and die with the skills of these people. If you can hold a team together AND have a good design, then the game might just have a chance .

And then, if the team is relatively small AND can see each other (in real life) at least every other week, then imo you don´t really need a designer, as you can just sit down together and toss ideas around. Someone should write them up though, but I wouldn´t go as far as call that guy the designer.

quote: Original post by Hase
I am usually somewhat careful of people who are *only* designers, because they are usually (from my experience) not skilled in any other are. It might be true that a full design is just as much work as programming, but the design doc should be written in advance (most of it at least), so that should leave the designer free to do some other work as well.

Assuming that he doesn''t have another project to attend to, you might be right. As you said, most of the design doc should be written in advance. Thus the designer usually hooks up with the project long before most of the other team. So it makes sense he seeks for another project when his work is almost done.

quote: Another problem with some of these so-called designers is that they ended up with design because they don´t have any other game-related skills, which usually means that they aren´t especially good at design either... (especially if you´re serious about getting into the industry you absolutely have to have another area of expertise).

That is so untrue. I for example am skilled in both programming and project management. However, I still prefer being a full time designer if possible (and usually its not).

In my opinion the game design requires at least knowledge of all the other areas of game development. Unless you have some idea what is possible there is a risk that your design is totally impossible to implement. Also the knowledge of what is easy and what is not may help to steer the design on the right track.

I agree with the need of other skills if one wants to get into the industry, though.

quote: And then, if the team is relatively small AND can see each other (in real life) at least every other week, then imo you don´t really need a designer, as you can just sit down together and toss ideas around. Someone should write them up though, but I wouldn´t go as far as call that guy the designer.

Again I tend to disagree. Thinking of ideas and writing them down is the least strenuous of the design activities. Testing the ideas and balancing the game (both designing a balanced ruleset and tuning the parameters of different game components affecting the balance) are major parts of the work.

Trust me, extensively testing a design for game balance and same time ensuring it is fun requires quite a bit effort. See for yourself. Most of the games in the market aren''t very well balanced. That''s what you get when there''s no dedicated, skillful designer.

And as what comes to the original question/topic, are all game designers annoying, I''d say yes Especially the perfectionist ones.