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Which Country Should I Move To?

Started by December 09, 2011 12:19 AM
79 comments, last by Jacob Jingle 12 years, 10 months ago
Canada may be one option, Sweden (especially Kista) another. I really hate cold winters, so neither of them is for me, but otherwise they're both good on all acconts.

In fact, Kista may be the perfect compromise for what you want: kind of a "small Silicon Valley", under an hour in the car to "big city", 30 mins to airport, and 30 mins to "totally desolate countryside". Be sure to bring warm clothes for winter, last time I visited, it was -10, you could see about 30 meters and there were 2 meters of snow in the street... which doesn't prevent the average Swede from driving 70-80 km/h.

Not over populated[/quote]

Rules out China, Japan, and the entire EU with the exception of northern Sweden (outside The City), some now totally desolate parts of former East Germany, some rural areas in France and Spain, or other places in a land far, far away where you have no perspective whatsoever of finding a job, especially not in IT, and not well-paid either.

Sensible leaders and politics[/quote]

That rules out planet Earth. On a more serious note, good governements don't exist. Human does not go with power.

France has a government that (from a German's perspective) does not look bad at all, though all French people I know seem to hate Sarkozy and disapprove of anything he does (no idea why, I've only seen him do things that are more good than evil in summary).
Germany maintains a dog and pony show run by clowns rather than a government. This circus comes with one half-baked new idea every two weeks (usually the opposite of two weeks ago). Plus, we do any Nazi idea that the USA come up with, but we do it first, and we do it right. Worried about SOPA? You must be kidding. Eavesdropping telephones and internet? Biometric surveillance? Hey, get down, we practically invented that stuff. It's for our safety and freedom.
Italy's government used to be somewhere in between Germany's pony show, Mussolini, and Mafia, but now that Berlusconi is finally gone, maybe things will get better. One can hope.
Now Belgium of course tops every other country in terms of government, having had no government at all for nearly 2 years because they could not agree on the election outcome. And guess what... the music played on.

Safe (both protected by the government and from the government)[/quote]

Definitively not Germany. The police is good at criminalizing normal people, but if someone breaks into your house or your car, you never see police. If you're robbed or if there is a brawl, police takes 1-2 hours, because hey, getting into a brawl is dangerous. Better do some important park tickets first.
I do feel quite safe in France on both accounts, though I've heard much different from other people (admittedly, I stay far away from Paris, which is a different world). Rural France is where you leave your front door open and where cars stop when you cross the street.

Speaks English, since that's all I know[/quote]

This will be a serious problem in most European countries (other than Ireland, UK, or Sweden... maybe 1-2 others). You might possibly find a job in a company that uses English internally as Hodgman said, but these companies are rare, and all in all it remains very problematic. In most EU countries, everybody hates the "stupid American who expects us to talk English". Seriously.
Forget about pulling that in Germany, France, Italy, or Spain (forget twice in France). Don't expect someone in the city hall or in an administrative office being able (or rather willing!) to talk English, and don't expect to get what you need. There is of course always the chance of being lucky and finding someone exceptionally kind and helpful, but I would not rely on these odds.
In Sweden, surprisingly, everybody in the street and in the shops speaks English and has no issues whatsoever with doing that and being just "normal" about it.

Also, EU is dangerously close (a matter of days) to breaking up which will lead to civil disorder and socio-economic breakdown.
[...]
it's happening. The EU is finished.[/quote]
This, Sir, is so disqualifyingly wrong on all accounts that I can hardly find words to express.

There sure are non-deniable problems in 3-4 countries, and serious problems in one particular country. However, these problems are mostly home-made (with the help of two notable US companies) and have existed and been well-known for three decades, and the music played on. Kohl and Mitterand wanted the union at any price back then, and although everybody knew that Greece (and Italy, and some others) had forged their balance, this was silently accepted, because we wanted the union, end of story. Of course this has cost the union dearly, and it still does, but that's not something that was unforeseeable.

Also, it's not like Greece is really out of money. A few people get richer as money disappears, and a lot of people get a bit poorer, both in Greece and the rest of the EU. But again, that's not something sensational, new, or specific to Europe. The common people will have to work a bit harder, and they will be a bit less happy, but the music will play on.
The annoying thing about it is that as long as the union keeps doing everything to rescue a member country from collapse, at any cost (and it still looks like they will not back off any time soon) there is little incentive for anyone in the government to change anything substantially, other than maybe pro forma. An actual hard collapse would possibly be better both for the people in the country and the entire union.

As far as the UK go, they did not intend to be part of the EU or the Euro for the last 30 years, so that is not big news either. Who cares.
Here's a few ineffable words of wisdom from the glorious Cracked.com team on why this probably won't work. To sum up:

1) Nobody else wants you. There's a strong anti-American sentiment in even countries such as UK who have traditionally been rather friendly and tolerant. You're an American. In a lot of peoples' eyes, that makes you the bad guy.

2) Their government doesn't want you. Immigration floods aren't simply a problem for the USA. Plenty of other governments enact measures far harsher than the USA to curb immigration, legal or otherwise.

3) If you think life sucks here, just wait until you see it somewhere else.

4) That thing you hate, that makes it impossible to tolerate living here? Yeah, it's probably the same wherever you are thinking you will move to. Welcome to earth. It's populated by humans.

5) Adapting to other cultures is difficult. You are probably going to screw up, make a rude gesture, say a rude phrase, and get your ass kicked in the bar without knowing why. Different cultures are different. My brother has lived in China for 15 years now, and even still he sometimes runs into problems and misunderstandings.

6) Even if you do ex-patriate, you're still probably going to hang out with other Americans and do American-ish things. It's the group/herd mentality at work. You might think you object to a whole bunch of things about America, but once you are alone in an alien culture, I promise you, you will gravitate toward people with a similar background as you. You will start thinking that, in comparison to the weird shit going on around you, maybe Americans aren't so bad.


Now, it's Cracked, so take it as you will. But I have traveled extensively, with long stays in various parts of Europe, Australia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc... Moving to another country is simply not as easy as just packing your shit and heading out.

Also, what kind of coward just turns tail and runs when things get difficult? When life sucks wherever you end up, are you going to just run again? When does the running stop? When you reach utopia? Just where is that?
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Mine is greener.
Antarctica. Sure, it's cold, but it's also classified as international territory. Provided that a game company allows remote workers, it'd actually be a pretty reasonable place to live.

  • Sensible leaders and politics (More or less)
  • Good education system (Extremely hands-on learning)
  • Good social opportunities for my future children (China and Japan sound cool and all, but there's too much pressure on school work there IMO; somewhere where a kid can be a kid, but still gain a good education) (Probably)
  • Good standard of living for someone in the CS industry (Probably)
  • Good work opportunities for someone in the CS industry (I haven't decided a particular area in CS yet) (Probably, working remotely would cover this)
  • Not over populated (I come from mountainous Utah, so I like a decent amount of space between two houses) (Definitely, in fact, it's one of the most sparsely populated places on Earth)
  • [color="#1c2837"]Safe (both protected by the government and from the government) [color="#1c2837"](Quite, actually. Who would attack Antarctica?)
  • Speaks English, since that's all I know and the only languages I enjoy learning are programming languages (The majority of the population speaks English)
  • Anything else you might think is important (Internet access, unspoiled natural beauty, fresh air, hot springs on Deception Island...
  • Oh, and the satisfaction of picking "Antarctica" as your country when creating accounts for web services.)

    [color="#1c2837"]

    The only caveat is that you have to join a research team/group attached to a country/organization.

[size="3"][topic='595477'][size="3"]FACADE, the ultimate adventure game!
Volunteers Needed![/topic]
If I could move to another country, where learning a language would be a problem, I'd pick New Zealand. Island cultures are the best. Have you ever met a Samoan, Tongan, Maori that was an asshole? I actually looked into moving when I was bored one day, the biggest problem is that getting a visa and work there seemed to be difficult.

Canada is not like moving. If you notice a difference in your day to day life living in Canada vs the US, then you have an odd life. Toronto reminds me of any large US city. Calgary reminds me of Denver. Vancouver reminds me of Seattle. Montreal has the french thing going, but you wouldn't move there anyway.

UK could be an option. They have that european feel but speak english. Never been there, but it seems to have decent opportunities for educated people.

I like sprawl so I think I'll stick to my suburban house. A rarity outside of our continent.
The Tories are a euro-skeptic party, who have always opposed joining the Euro, and disliked the EU. We can hardly make conclusions about the EU's economic outlook, based on a statement from David Cameron, which is the same view he's always had.

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Let me give a small list of things that I would consider important:
  • Sensible leaders and politics


Frankly, if you really care about that, what you should do is face the problem in the place where you can actually do something to help fix things yourself. Going to another country isn't going to make you happy with respect to these issues (well, perhaps Iceland might be an exception, seems they're small enough for reasonable things to happen there, but I'm probably wrong about that, too).
Widelands - laid back, free software strategy
I'd say it sounds like you want to move here to Canada. Not the urban one mentioned elsewhere in this thread. The bit with the rocks and trees. That's where I live: the politicians are mostly irrelevant and would be driven of your land with a shotgun if they came calling, you can go for days without seeing anyone if you want (you have to drive your truck just to get to the nearest Timmy's) and once you're used to the local accent and level of literacy the only language you'll hear outside of the schools is English.

In short, God's own country.

And, as a plus, there's a whole culture of expectation where people like you would rather not get off their ever-spreading butts and try to fix what's wrong and just whine that someone else isn't doing the job to their satisfaction.

Stephen M. Webb
Professional Free Software Developer

new zeland is the most transparent contry in the world google about it good luck bro
Honestly, no place in the world, at least that I'm aware of, is free of political stupidity. Europe used to be the panacia of high-minded, wannabe expats, but you really have to look no further than the UKs pervasive survielance, France's would-be internet censorship, Germany's insane media classifications, or this whole greece/euro thing to have that bubble burst.

Canada is not a terrible choice. taxes are high, but at least their government got actual universal healthcare in return...

Alaska wouldn't be a bad choice either. It's still part of the states, of course, but it seems relatively insulated from the minor retardations of the lower 48, Sarah Palin notwithstanding.

Other than that, perhaps the most free you can be is to take enough money to get on good terms with the despot of your choice. Ironically, freedom can usually be purchased in places where it is most absent.

throw table_exception("(? ???)? ? ???");

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