It seems like each week/month I'm more and more disappointed in my country's government (the US, that is). I'm young and in college, but I've been thinking about the possibility of moving out of the US after I get my degree and starting life somewhere that's not here. What country do you think is the best? Let me give a small list of things that I would consider important:

• Sensible leaders and politics
• Good education system
• Good social opportunities for my future children (China and Japan sound cool and all, but there's too much pressure on school work there IMO; somewhere where a kid can be a kid, but still gain a good education)
• Good standard of living for someone in the CS industry
• Good work opportunities for someone in the CS industry (I haven't decided a particular area in CS yet)
• Not over populated (I come from mountainous Utah, so I like a decent amount of space between two houses)
• Safe (both protected by the government and from the government)
• Speaks English, since that's all I know and the only languages I enjoy learning are programming languages
• Anything else you might think is important
  I've thought of somewhere in the EU maybe, but I'm not sure.

How about Canada?

I think you best be looking toward the stars if you really want to hit that first point.


But Canada isn't bad. Really, we're mostly friendly bunches up here. Just watch out for the French.

Well, I don't know what the work visa rules are for other countries but that's going to be your biggest hurdle. For the US, foreigners cannot get a work visa to move here unless they have at least ~6 years prior professional experience in the field of the job to which they are being hired (I forget what the exact number is). It is likely that other countries have similar rules for granting work visas. So if you really want to move, your best plan might be:

- see who can hire you
- move there

Having English as a restriction would also be unnecessarily limiting your options. Countries that speak English at work would be: US, Canada, Britain, Australia, and those below . That's it. And if you're moving to Quebec, Canada you probably want to learn French if you want to get along more easily with the locals.

Mostly your best bet of working internationally is to get a job with a multi-national company in the US and then transfer internally to a foreign office. Getting hired out of country, especially without work experience is extremely challenging.

-me

• Speaks English, since that's all I know and the only languages I enjoy learning are programming languages

Well there are only 6 countries where english is the defacto language. Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, New Zealand, United Kingdom, USA.

The EU definitely sounds like what you're looking for, except you'd probably want to learn a 2nd language for social reasons (many companies use English internally, instead of their native tongue), and population density might be higher than you're used to.

I can only comment on living in Australia:
* Politics - similar to the US, but on a much smaller scale and less extreme. To us, US presidential campaigns look like rock concert tours. Still quite conservative like the US. Still have two parties: far-right/conservative/"Republican"=="Liberal" vs centre-right/social/"Democrat"=="Labor".
* Education - Can't be hard to beat the US education system, right? Public schools are decent and competitive with private schools. University is deregulated and not free, but you can get an interest-free loan from the government to cover your tuition costs (which is paid directly to the school, and you pay back via extra tax -- no work, no repayments).
* Living - A corporate CS graduate could expect ~$50k (-17% tax). Someone with experience could fetch ~$100k p/a (-24% tax).
The further you're willing to commute, the more space you can get (and the cheaper your rent will become, e.g. outer-suburbs house/yard for <$1k/mo vs inner-city apartment for $2k/mo).
Crime-wise, again, can't be hard to beat the US, right? There's sure to be less guns, gangs, drugs and unemployment here on average.
* Opportunity - video-games wise, the industry here has shrunk by about half over the past 5 years, so it's not great to be looking for games jobs, but there's the usual Microsoft/Google/Oracle-type offices, and corporate finance/etc type places.
* English - we're as mono-language as the states, no need to speak foreign here

It seems like each week/month I'm more and more disappointed in my country's government (the US, that is). I'm young and in college [...]

Yeah none of what the federal government does directly effects most people. State are for more important for most people. If you stop watching the news for a while you'll soon realize that and stop caring.

Looking at your list, the US has those properties for most people unless you're on the extremes like the Tea Party.

If you're willing to learn another language then a lot of very peaceful countries exist. Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, etc that have decent job outlooks. (Then again you can also just move someplace else in the US).

I'd actually be interested to see what things in the federal government that you don't want to see in the country you'd move to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patagonia

I wouldn't trust Canada, if shit hits the fan, the authorities here won't have any qualms deporting you to America.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/12/06/weston-border-deal-exit.html

Also, EU is dangerously close (a matter of days) to breaking up which will lead to civil disorder and socio-economic breakdown.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16082755
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2071800/Tesco-plans-collapse-eurozone.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100122774/eurozone-crisis-summit-what-david-cameron-will-say/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/08/treaty-changes-on-eu-summit-agenda

I'd love to try living in Norway, Sweden, Finland, or Switzerland. Never visited, but I hear good things.

[quote name='Cornstalks' timestamp='1323389989' post='4891999']

• Speaks English, since that's all I know and the only languages I enjoy learning are programming languages

Well there are only 6 countries where english is the defacto language. Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, New Zealand, United Kingdom, USA.
[/quote]
Surely you can't be serious? South Africa has 11 official languages, but English is most definitely the dominant language (most people speak it as their 2nd or 3rd language), as well as the de facto business language. You didn't list Canada either...

[quote name='Cornstalks' timestamp='1323389989' post='4891999']
It seems like each week/month I'm more and more disappointed in my country's government (the US, that is). I'm young and in college [...]

Yeah none of what the federal government does directly effects most people. State are for more important for most people. If you stop watching the news for a while you'll soon realize that and stop caring.
[/quote]
I largely agree with you there. Utah has actually been really good to live in, and I have nothing against living in Utah, but I'm becoming less interested in living in the US.

If you're willing to learn another language then a lot of very peaceful countries exist. Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, etc that have decent job outlooks.

I've always thought about those countries, but learning another language is my biggest barrier. I know it's possible, but it would take a couple years to just get the language down to a point where I can feel more natural in expressing myself, which is a couple of years I'd rather spend not worrying about a language. I didn't like English classes, and I really didn't care for my Spanish class either, so judging by those experiences I'm going to assume it's best if I avoid the unnecessary stress (but I agree that it's a major limitation I'm putting on myself, unfortunately).

I'd actually be interested to see what things in the federal government that you don't want to see in the country you'd move to.

I'm really hoping to avoid a political debate in this thread, but just to give you an idea, seeing as I think it's relavent: a country that doesn't have HR1540 (please Obama, do the right thing), doesn't have the DMCA (drives me nuts I can't legally get around the DRM on my iTunes music), has a government that is more functional (i.e. that when they say "super committee," the word "super" actually means something where they accomplish at least one dang thing), etc. It's not that the US us the worstest place evar, it's just that I'm becoming more and more interested in trying another place out since I'm realizing I may like it more.

Canada and Australia sound interesting... Keep the input coming, it's awesome! Especially from the users who live(d) in other countries who can share what it's like.