But Canada isn't bad. Really, we're mostly friendly bunches up here. Just watch out for the French.

Relative to the US? Hardly.
I've lived in Ontario from 1993 to 1998, Florida from 1998 to 2002, BC from 2002 to 2011, and now I'm in California. I've also been to about 10 other states.
The US is undoubtedly friendlier than Canada. San Francisco is probably the friendliest city I've been in, and Vancouver the least (well, Paris is a close second).
Smaller towns in Canada are more friendly (Victoria, BC is not bad) but will bore one to death.
Moreover, after the so-called "centrist" Liberal party was (deservedly) decimated in the last election, politics in Canada has become polarized in a way very similar to the US. Canadians are just catching up.

Speaking for the UK - I don't think UK is an improvement politically, each country has pros and cons (though obviously it depends on exactly what you dislike about the US Government). But if you want to move anyway for whatever reason: I think the education system is reasonably good (higher education unfortunately getting expensive, though nowhere near what it is in the US), and reasonably good salary and opportunities for computer science. I wouldn't say it's overpopulated, but houses tend to be smaller and more expensive than in the US AFAICT. Things I like about the UK include the public healthcare, and the longer holidays that employees tend to get (25 + public holidays is common) compared to the US.

There's also the question of how you're going to get here, since both the main parties seem anti-immigration - immigration from outside the EU has got far harder in the last 10 years, and the borders are almost shut except for a few categories. I will be marrying my US partner, but we still have a large amount of expense, hoops and hassle to jump through just to live together! 10 years ago you could come here with a degree; now I believe your only hope is if you're employed for a skilled job where the company are unable to find anyone from within the EU to do it.

Certainly no one that even on occasion checks slashdot stories would consider moving to the surveillance state that the UK is quickly becoming.
Sure, the US isn't that far behind in that respect, but at least they still have freedom of speech. But anti-hate speech laws in the UK, rest of Europe, and Canada severely dilute that right in those nations (not to mention that such laws are absolutely ineffective in curtailing hate--hate should be exposed and publicly addressed with rational arguments, not left to foment in hiding).

Canada is not a terrible choice. taxes are high

What's that about taxes?

Top personal income tax bracket in Canada: 29% (over $128,800); comparable tax bracket in US: 28% (between $83,600 and $174,400)
So it seems a whole whopping 1% percent higher than the US, right? Now hold on a second... what about above $174,400 for the US?
33%--up to $379,150. And then, 35%. Canada at those levels? Still 29%.

But perchance you were referring to corporate tax rates?
Canada: 16.5% until January 1, 2012, then 15%. US: top bracket is 35%. Ouch!

So: fuck you for spreading disinformation.

~~~~~

The reason Canada is not a good choice is because multiculturalism is the worst possible approach, and you see it in socially failed cities such as Toronto and Vancouver. US-style melting pot is much better. For those that complain about immigrants not always integrating well in the US--you better stay out of Canada where it's 10x worse! Don't like ghettos? Toronto is turning into one, and Vancouver's downtown eastside is one of the worst slums in North America, with more junkies per square meter than anywhere I have ever seen.

I'd say it sounds like you want to move here to Canada. Not the urban one mentioned elsewhere in this thread. The bit with the rocks and trees. That's where I live: the politicians are mostly irrelevant and would be driven of your land with a shotgun if they came calling, you can go for days without seeing anyone if you want (you have to drive your truck just to get to the nearest Timmy's) and once you're used to the local accent and level of literacy the only language you'll hear outside of the schools is English.

In short, God's own country.

And, as a plus, there's a whole culture of expectation where people like you would rather not get off their ever-spreading butts and try to fix what's wrong and just whine that someone else isn't doing the job to their satisfaction.

The problem with living in the bush is that there's not enough variety of things like women, for example. If you're married and/or retired, or a hermit, or you only live in the virtual behind your keyboard, then the great wilderness of the Canadian north is fantastic (I'll probably end up there when I'm old, and I love the BC mountains, so I'm not knocking it, it is great). But for the rest of us, urban life has a lot of value.

The Tories are a euro-skeptic party, who have always opposed joining the Euro, and disliked the EU. We can hardly make conclusions about the EU's economic outlook, based on a statement from David Cameron, which is the same view he's always had.

The Euro makes no sense for as heterogenous a collection of economies as the eurozone is--unless there's full fiscal and economic integration. This is quite obvious and has been pointed out numerous times by people with understanding of Modern Monetary Theory. Why would a country give up its most powerful tool of economic policy--being the monopoly issuer of its own currency?
The Euro, in combination with Germany's mercantilist policies of huge trade surplus combined with wage suppression are the real cause of the current European crisis. The Euro chains down other eurozone members and they cannot fight back. With such a trade imbalance the expected thing has happened: Germany beggaring its neighbors. Even if the weaker states fall out of the eurozone, then the damage will simply be shifted onto others. It's just not sustainable, and the only alternative outcome to the eurozone breaking apart is significant further integration, including politically difficult to swallow pills such as common bonds for eurozone countries and so on. Or maybe the Bundesbank will give up on being guided by dated neoliberalist economic ideas and embrace the lessons of neochartalism (probably not... plus, I've no doubt some of our German friends are realizing that after two failed attempts at taking over Europe militarily, they might now be able to subjugate it economically).

* Living -
Crime-wise, again, can't be hard to beat the US, right? There's sure to be less guns, gangs, drugs and unemployment here on average.

In my country, we haven't heard of anything grave happening there (terrorism, genocide, massacre, etc).

During my childhood, I remember the place being very peaceful and pleasant and that probably the most violent thing that can happen there is 2 incensed koalas fighting over a eucalyptus tree.

"UK could be an option. They have that european feel but speak english. Never been there, but it seems to have decent opportunities for educated people."

The problem with moving here from a non-EU country is that it's amazingly difficult for UK companies to hire you. The work visas for experienced people are strictly rationed. It's a bit of a pain to be honest; most tech companies I know have empty seats, are hiring, can't find enough Brits or Europeans... and simply can't get through the paperwork hiring anyone else.

It's causing companies to start leaving the UK and opening offices in other countries and so on.

Come down to Australia. If we ever cross paths, I'll buy you a beer.

Perhaps as a (future) engineer it might make sense to make a list of requirements and pick the candiate with the highest aggregate score, but in my experience that's not how life works. At least it's not how most people choose their girl/boy friends or what they'll have for dinner. You'll find that no place is perfect; either accept it or actively try to make a change where you live now.

Having said that, I would definitely recommend visiting (and possibly living in) other countries when you have the opportunity. Being young and having (almost) finished a higher education in a technical field I think you're in an ideal situation to do that. I'm an IT expat myself, and in my experience it shouldn't be hard to find a job abroad if you're fluent in English.

• Sensible leaders and politics
  
  You probably feel most comfortable in a democratic system. As you may have found out, this doesn't mean that every political decision is 'sensible' in your view. This isn't going to be any different anywhere else in the world.
  
  
• Good education system
  
  For whom? You, your future offspring, or are you refering to the level of education of the general population?
  
  And what makes it good? Having world class institutes, but which may only be accessible to the brightest or wealthiest, or having a perhaps more modest level of education but available to everyone?
  
  And of course, education isn't everything. What about highly trained professionals that are stuck in low level jobs abroad, because there wasn't any work available for them in their own country?
  
  
• Good social opportunities for my future children (China and Japan sound cool and all, but there's too much pressure on school work there IMO; somewhere where a kid can be a kid, but still gain a good education)
  
  I think it's going to be tough, if not impossible to find a place that provides ideal circumstances for you and your current or future wife/husband's professional career, and your yet non-existant children with unknown social, educational or even medical needs for the next twenty years or so. Your life will change a lot, and you'll be forced to make the choices along the way, don't expect to get everything right the first time.
  
  
• Good standard of living for someone in the CS industry
  
  Fortunately, even in the current worldwide economic situation, it's still one of the better fields to be working in internationally, although I'm not sure about the outlook for fresh college graduates. Salary and standard of living surveys can be easily found online.
  
  
• Good work opportunities for someone in the CS industry (I haven't decided a particular area in CS yet)
  
  Usually, most people find a job first, and then move.
  
  
• Not over populated (I come from mountainous Utah, so I like a decent amount of space between two houses)
  
  I think you can find relatively remote areas everywhere in the world, although they might be difficult to find in places like Western Europe (at least if you compare it to rural Utah). However it will make finding a job and schools a little more difficult. And keep in mind that, unless you plan to live like a hermite, moving to a new place requires interacting a lot with people and making new friendships, so I wouldn't choose to live in the absolute middle of nowhere.
  
  
• Safe (both protected by the government and from the government)
  
  I would think large parts of the world are relatively safe in that sense for a US citizen, but of course it often depends more on the particular area within that country you live in. For instance as an EU citizen I feel safe in the US in general, but I'm sure there are certain neighborhouds in big cities that both you and I wouldn't feel too comfortable walking around at night.
  
  
• Speaks English, since that's all I know and the only languages I enjoy learning are programming languages
  
  I think you need to find a place where you're at least able to survive by only speaking Enlish, but I find that it is the case in most parts of the world. But I'm not sure disimissing the possibility of learning a second language right away just because it's not one of your hobbies is very good attitude to have. If you move to a new environment things are going to be different, and learning to adapt is a very valuable skill.
  
  
• Anything else you might think is important
  
  It's your life.
  

I'd say it sounds like you want to move here to Canada. Not the urban one mentioned elsewhere in this thread. The bit with the rocks and trees. That's where I live: the politicians are mostly irrelevant and would be driven of your land with a shotgun if they came calling, you can go for days without seeing anyone if you want (you have to drive your truck just to get to the nearest Timmy's) and once you're used to the local accent and level of literacy the only language you'll hear outside of the schools is English.

In short, God's own country.

The same places exist in the US. Hell he lives in Utah, that's God's country right there. Pretty much you can draw a big square in the middle of the US and culturally consider it a different country. The whole US is not New York City.

[quote name='Ravyne' timestamp='1323486967' post='4892421']
Canada is not a terrible choice. taxes are high

What's that about taxes?

Top personal income tax bracket in Canada: 29% (over $128,800); comparable tax bracket in US: 28% (between $83,600 and $174,400)
So it seems a whole whopping 1% percent higher than the US, right? Now hold on a second... what about above $174,400 for the US?
33%--up to $379,150. And then, 35%. Canada at those levels? Still 29%.

But perchance you were referring to corporate tax rates?
Canada: 16.5% until January 1, 2012, then 15%. US: top bracket is 35%. Ouch!
[/quote]

Maybe income tax is similar, but you guys also have VAT (close to 15% I think?), and I noticed a lot of stuff was taxed either overtly or under the table. Gas, tobacco, and alcohol are good examples. A 6-pack of Coors was $12 last time I went and a can of dip (my friend chews), was $20. I'm surprised the alcoholics and nicotine addicts are not rioting in the streets.

$30,000 here goes a lot farther than $30,000 in Canada.