Hey all, this is my first post. I'm hoping to get a little advice in order to get the ball rolling in my career. I have a completed bachelors in Business Administration and a firm grasp of C# as a programming language. I'm learning about XNA now, and after I work through the two new books I have on XNA development, I'll be learning C++. My goal is to get into the industry as a programmer and, eventually, move into a designer/producer role. I'm putting together a portfolio as I learn, but I have an extensive art and music portfolio. Here is where I'm a little fuzzy...

Without the field-specific degree, what should my next move be in preparing for this career? I have a few options. I don't have knowledge of C++ yet, but I'm getting there. I think my best bet is through school, however I'm not sure which path to pursue. Is it worth it to tack on another BA/BS in Computer Science/Programming/Game Design? I could also pursue certificates or a smaller AA program. I feel like I'd need some sort of professional "look at me, I have basic programming skills" certification of sorts. I'm not sure if that is the case, however. I very much enjoy programming, more so than I enjoy graphics or music, which I am quite a bit more knowledgeable of at the current time.

I guess, besides pursuing more schooling, my other option would be to get a job in a studio utilizing my business degree and management skills, while I refine my programming skills. I'm very flexible, and have a GI Bill that will fund up to 36 more months of schooling. I'm not in a rush; I want to do this right. Any advice would be most helpful.

Moving to the Breaking In forum.

TheClifford wrote:

1. I have a completed bachelors in Business Administration and a firm grasp of C# as a programming language. I'm learning about XNA now, and after I work through the two new books I have on XNA development, I'll be learning C++.
2. My goal is to get into the industry as a programmer and, eventually, move into a designer/producer role.
3. I'm putting together a portfolio as I learn, but
3 1/2. I have an extensive art and music portfolio.
4. Without the field-specific degree, what should my next move be in preparing for this career? I have a few options.
5. I think my best bet is through school, however I'm not sure which path to pursue. 6. Is it worth it to tack on another BA/BS in Computer Science/Programming/Game Design?
7. I feel like I'd need some sort of professional "look at me, I have basic programming skills" certification of sorts.
8. I guess, besides pursuing more schooling, my other option would be to get a job in a studio utilizing my business degree and management skills, while I refine my programming skills. [/quote]
1. That's all good.
2. Interesting and a little odd, but doable.
3. No, the portfolio should be made after you learn, not during the process.
3 1/2. Odder and odder. This stuff is all good, but it makes you look a bit unfocused.
4. Good, list your options and analyze them all as well as you can.
5. Make a decision grid. See the FAQs (above, now that this post is moved to Breaking In).
6. "Worth" is FAQ 66 (in other words: "wrong question"). Instead, ask yourself what you WANT to do. Seriously. Read FAQ 40.
7. Forget your feelings. Get facts.
8. Programming isn't the only pathway to being a producer. Sounds like you're talking about skipping programming and jumping straight into production, but then still focusing on programming so you can get into production?? Read FAQ 42.

TheClifford wrote:

1. I have a completed bachelors in Business Administration and a firm grasp of C# as a programming language. I'm learning about XNA now, and after I work through the two new books I have on XNA development, I'll be learning C++.
2. My goal is to get into the industry as a programmer and, eventually, move into a designer/producer role.
3. I'm putting together a portfolio as I learn, but
3 1/2. I have an extensive art and music portfolio.
4. Without the field-specific degree, what should my next move be in preparing for this career? I have a few options.
5. I think my best bet is through school, however I'm not sure which path to pursue. 6. Is it worth it to tack on another BA/BS in Computer Science/Programming/Game Design?
7. I feel like I'd need some sort of professional "look at me, I have basic programming skills" certification of sorts.
8. I guess, besides pursuing more schooling, my other option would be to get a job in a studio utilizing my business degree and management skills, while I refine my programming skills.

1. That's all good.
2. Interesting and a little odd, but doable.
3. No, the portfolio should be made after you learn, not during the process.
3 1/2. Odder and odder. This stuff is all good, but it makes you look a bit unfocused.
4. Good, list your options and analyze them all as well as you can.
5. Make a decision grid. See the FAQs (above, now that this post is moved to Breaking In).
6. "Worth" is FAQ 66 (in other words: "wrong question"). Instead, ask yourself what you WANT to do. Seriously. Read FAQ 40.
7. Forget your feelings. Get facts.
8. Programming isn't the only pathway to being a producer. Sounds like you're talking about skipping programming and jumping straight into production, but then still focusing on programming so you can get into production?? Read FAQ 42.
[/quote]

First off, thank you so much for your time. I greatly appreciate it. I'm 26, and have spent a bit of time doing a bunch of random stuff, so I'm trying to focus on settling into a career for the long haul now that I have my direction.

3. Good to know! I will hold off on portfolio'ing for now.
3 1/2. I am an accomplished artist, but find it boring. I'm also a classically trained musician with about ten years of composition background with extensive recorded and produced works. I also find that to be boring. I'm focusing on programming, purely by interest.
4 + 5, Today I bought a big white board to draw it all out.
6. I had to read 40 a few times for it to sink in. Thanks!
7. Roger that!
8. I don't want to skip; I was just thinking of alternate routes to programming by getting my foot in the door with what I have now. I guess that is in tandem with "is it worth it". I would however say, that "is it worth it?" can be a valid question when determining the best route to your end result. Time management. Maybe that is just the Army in me that needs to get shaken out over time.

Doing the reading you prescribed and that of my own, I do realize there is no cookie cutter path in all this. I'm just wondering what the best use of my resources/time is. Ideally I'd like to work smarter and harder. Thanks again, Tom. Your resources are exceptional.

1. I'm just wondering what the best use of my resources/time is.
2. Ideally I'd like to work smarter and harder.
3. Thanks again, Tom. Your resources are exceptional.

1. List some options, and analyze them.
2. Good, do that!
3. Aw shucks.

My advice: DO!

and if u DO s.th. Do it good!

just my 2 cents :-)

If you're interested in getting a programming job in the industry, there are a few things employers will tend to look for. First and foremost is industry experience. Lacking that, there are a couple other things that may help get you in the door.

Generally, when a development team is looking for engineers, the first reason, and top priority, is that they want to use some piece of technology and don't happen to have anyone (or enough people) on the team who has experience with it. Aside from knowing people and coming highly recommended by insiders, the easiest way to get a job as a programmer, by far, is to have specialized knowledge of the technology de jour. A couple years ago, that was usually experience integrating certain middle-ware systems, like Havok and Quazal, into engines. Lately, I think it's been developing gameplay, UI, AI, etc., in certain commercial engines, like Unreal Engine 3. If you scan job postings and find a high demand for certain specialized knowledge and then find a way to learn it, and demonstrate it before the demand blows over, you may be able to make opportunities for yourself.

This approach is risky though, as it's tough to really have the desired skill without actual industry experience, and demand may very well shift. And even if you do get a position, you may find that your specialized knowledge isn't enough to secure a position in the long term. Don't make this your only tack.

The main reason development teams generally open entry level positions is that they have work that doesn't require uncommon experience and would like to get it done cheaply. Since there are always more people trying to get into the industry than there are these sorts of openings, they can afford to be picky. In this situation, it really pays to have an applicable degree, and better still, professional software engineering experience in another industry.

Engineers in this industry have worked hard for their positions and take their craft seriously. They're not likely to be impressed by enthusiasm and self taught programming. They will generally expect successful entry level applicants to be the sort that are capable of landing a programming job in just about any industry.


All that being said, if you want to become a producer, Engineering is the loooong way to get there.

Although there are a lot of different activities and jobs that have been called 'production', in the video game industry the producer's job is generally schedule wrangling. The job involves analyzing design, extracting engineering and asset needs (in collaboration with seniors in those disciplines), analyzing dependencies and time estimates to extract critical paths and risk assessments, developing production plans, tracking progress, anticipating, detecting, and resolving blocking issues, coordinating disciplines, overseeing testing departments, coordinating with external groups, buying lunch and doughnuts and throwing barbecues, and generally facilitating development in all the ways that don't fall under anyone else's responsibilities. Production is essentially the lubrication and coordination of all the "skilled" positions. Although certain engineering skills are very helpful to being a good producer, and lots of experience working with engineering departments is vital to doing the job well, actually being an engineer is completely unrelated.

If you were to spend the time and money to get an engineering degree, spend the time on the job to learn the trade and move up to mid and senior levels, spend the time to get solid experience leading engineering groups, etc., you would have spent a good 15-20 years developing knowledge and skill which won't necessarily help you become a producer. And after all that, you probably wouldn't want to take the pay cut to make the change.

Like the engineering department, 'production' also has entry level positions. The position is generally called "production assistant" (PA), and is skewed heavily towards the buying lunch, keeping spreadsheets, and performing all the repetitive menial tasks side of things. There is no special training needed for this position, and I think that your current degree (and a willingness to work hard for relatively little compensation) would make you well qualified. If you're interested in becoming a producer, in a reasonable number of years, this is the route to take.

Design is a whole other ball of wax...