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Proof God doesn't exist?

Started by January 20, 2011 11:50 PM
401 comments, last by nilkn 13 years, 6 months ago

I mean, if we practice good virtues to our fellow man, if a God does exist, I think it would satisfy him greatly.


And what if the god is evil? What if Hades from Greek mythology turns out to be the god? :D

Think of it this way. We are to domesticated cattle what the Greek gods would be to us. How exactly do we treat those cattle?

Your reasoning doesn't work for the same reason Pascal's wager fails. In Pascal's wager, of course the person always assumes that if god exists, then god is the god of your religion. It is rarely considered that perhaps the god would not be the god of Christianity but maybe that of Islam, and you would then be completely screwed for having believed in the Christian god.


[color="#1C2837"]And if one doesn't, then we still come out as good people and a happier future generation for it. [/quote]

[color="#1C2837"]Many problems in the world are due to religion because, unfortunately, religion often teaches us not to practice good virtues to our fellow man. Religion--not just Christianity, although by no means is that excluded--has been behind many a war. [For clarity, I am *not* blaming all the world's problems on religion. I am just pointing out that religion often does *not* involve treating each other well, which you seemed to suggest.]
Okay. Considering what you just said.
I'm not saying "let's all be religious and solve our problems". No no no. Religion has gotten its nasty hands into too much already.
I'm just suggesting being kind to another. Show mercy. Be good.

When has being good at heart created evil? For instance giving someone extra food when they are low. Doing a favor just because you can. Forgiving someone for the sake of it.
God or no, I don't see how just following that basic principle could create a long-term and universal harm. Pardon me and my ignorance if there is a chance of that.

And if the god is evil? I think everything would be destroyed by now if that was the case. Knowing the concept of evil, it doesn't waste time. I find it a hard to believe a god would spend its time constructing a universe and all of the properties about it at such a specific level just to piss off the homosapiens.
I'm that imaginary number in the parabola of life.
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I'm just suggesting being kind to another. Show mercy. Be good.


I agree with the sentiment but I would phrase it in a less value dependent way as follows.

To the best of your ability avoid violence, destructiveness and the causing of suffering. To the best of you your ability try to be kind, merciful, and productive. Why? Because we do not live in isolation, we are very connected to our environment and to the beings in it. Every torture, violent or destructive action we perform makes the world a worse place to live in for us even if it comes with a much desired reward. And every kind, merciful, or productive action we are able to perform makes the world a better place for us to live in. If we do not self-check our behaviour in this way we will end up in a veritable hell, a hell on earth. But if we do, we will end up in a heaven indeed, a heaven on earth.


And if the god is evil? I think everything would be destroyed by now if that was the case. Knowing the concept of evil, it doesn't waste time. I find it a hard to believe a god would spend its time constructing a universe and all of the properties about it at such a specific level just to piss off the homosapiens.[/quote]

An intelligent evil god would not be content merely with destruction of everything. He would want profitable and enjoyable enslavement of the masses. Assuming the existance of a god do you really discard that possibility?..

[quote name='Machaira' timestamp='1303134698' post='4799897']
[quote name='nilkn' timestamp='1303098164' post='4799740']
... who perform exorcisms (all fake).


And you know this, how exactly? dry.gif
[/quote]

Because people, alarmed by the severe child abuse, have investigated and found it all to be cheap fraud. For instance, in the story

http://news.bbc.co.u...rica/575178.stm

The situation is extremely bad.

The people are so gullible that there is now a group that performs fake exorcisms, convincing entire villages at once, and then shows them how the trick was done, so that they understand both how the trickery is done and how vulnerable they were to it. I'll try to find the link--a lot of it has been videotaped and is on YouTube.
[/quote]

Indeed it is very sad. Check these links. Why are these people all so GULLABLE..? Why God, why?

http://www.foxnews.c...,341574,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn..._and_parenting/
http://www.nerve.com...le-parents-pray
http://www.mirror.co...15875-20378179/
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-03-19/world/catholic.church.abuse_1_abusive-priests-church-abuse-archdiocese?_s=PM:WORLD


Neither the children nor their mothers knew how to use crayons given to them by social workers after they were rescued.

[/quote]

Oh and check out the organization for little white christian children who have been molested by European pedos:

http://www.netgrace....=Home~none~none

[quote name='KanonBaum' timestamp='1303553253' post='4801893']
I'm just suggesting being kind to another. Show mercy. Be good.


I agree with the sentiment but I would phrase it in a less value dependent way as follows.

To the best of your ability avoid violence, destructiveness and the causing of suffering. To the best of you your ability try to be kind, merciful, and productive. Why? Because we do not live in isolation, we are very connected to our environment and to the beings in it. Every torture, violent or destructive action we perform makes the world a worse place to live in for us even if it comes with a much desired reward. And every kind, merciful, or productive action we are able to perform makes the world a better place for us to live in. If we do not self-check our behaviour in this way we will end up in a veritable hell, a hell on earth. But if we do, we will end up in a heaven indeed, a heaven on earth.


And if the god is evil? I think everything would be destroyed by now if that was the case. Knowing the concept of evil, it doesn't waste time. I find it a hard to believe a god would spend its time constructing a universe and all of the properties about it at such a specific level just to piss off the homosapiens.[/quote]

An intelligent evil god would not be content merely with destruction of everything. He would want profitable and enjoyable enslavement of the masses. Assuming the existance of a god do you really discard that possibility?..
[/quote]

But why would an all-knowing god choose to be evil? If the god created everything then a god created logic. And it doesn't seem logical to be evil. Evil doesn't create. Evil destroys.
I know I'm not being overly complicated with my phrasing here and if I was perhaps I could clear up some of the loose ends in my thinking process.
I'm that imaginary number in the parabola of life.
The thing that irks me about religious discussions is that they often need to take the word "religion" and replace it with "anglo-protestantism" to be accurate.

Religion is a very broad topic, and many critics of religion focus on a very narrow slice when talking about "religion". Christianity is not religion, it is a religion. One grain of sand in a vast beach. Even the concept of "God" is highly specific, and not universal to religion.

In many religions, there is little to no focus on the afterlife, but rather attempting to find some framework to understand man's existance by, or provide a lens through which to view the majesty of the Universe's machinations.

Abrahamic religious nutjobs irk me, but perhaps not as much as tween atheist hipsters playing at intellectualism while smoking their clove cigarettes. The latter claims to have thought about something (and hasn't), while the former is at least justifiably crazy and misguided.

While you plebeians sit in your ivory towers and sneer at the commoners beneath you, I'm going to sit in my fucking ivory space elevator, smoke clove cigars, and hate all of you before hating atheists was cool.
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The thing that irks me about religious discussions is that they often need to take the word "religion" and replace it with "anglo-protestantism" to be accurate.

Religion is a very broad topic, and many critics of religion focus on a very narrow slice when talking about "religion". Christianity is not religion, it is a religion. One grain of sand in a vast beach. Even the concept of "God" is highly specific, and not universal to religion.

In many religions, there is little to no focus on the afterlife, but rather attempting to find some framework to understand man's existance by, or provide a lens through which to view the majesty of the Universe's machinations.

Abrahamic religious nutjobs irk me, but perhaps not as much as tween atheist hipsters playing at intellectualism while smoking their clove cigarettes. The latter claims to have thought about something (and hasn't), while the former is at least justifiably crazy and misguided.

While you plebeians sit in your ivory towers and sneer at the commoners beneath you, I'm going to sit in my fucking ivory space elevator, smoke clove cigars, and hate all of you before hating atheists was cool.


I think you might be overreacting a bit. :D

First, you acknowledge that not all religions center around the sort of God concept being discussed here. So why would you expect a threat which is about such a God (see the title) to focus on those religions? Second, it seems to me the only religions actually represented by participants in this thread are Abrahamic, so of course those get focused on.

But why would an all-knowing god choose to be evil? If the god created everything then a god created logic. And it doesn't seem logical to be evil. Evil doesn't create. Evil destroys.


[color="#1C2837"]Why not?

[color="#1C2837"]Humans are incredibly evil in our interaction with many animals, like chicken, domesticated cattle, etc. Yet we actively support overbreeding them. But the relationship between humans and those animals is roughly equivalent to the supposed relationship between Greek Gods and humans.

[color="#1C2837"]More to the point, it can be argued that a God who created this world must have been evil or at least was not benevolent. Most arguments in support of a benevolent God fall prey to Epicurus's Problem of Evil. On the other hand, it's relatively trivial to suggest that God, if he exists, is not benevolent thanks to the presence of death, destruction, suffering, and evil in this world.

[color="#1C2837"]In Christianity, provided one accepts that God is omnipotent and omniscient, one must also accept that he caused the tsunamis in Japan recently--at the very least, he knew about them before he created the world, then deliberately created the world in just such a way that they would still happen, and that's no different from causing them. You are now faced with the third attribute of the Christian god: all-benevolence. How do you reconcile the destruction of Japan with an all-benevolent God? Basically, you can't: you have to say something like "God works in mysterious ways" or "It's all part of the plan," but you can never say what those ways are or what the plan is. Or you have to make a despicable statement like "God was getting back at Japan for Peal Harbor," a statement which unfortunately flooded Facebook the day of the events. In short, it's much harder to argue for an all-benevolent God than it is for a partially evil God.
First off, it's impossible for God to be omnipotent. Ever heard of that if he makes a rock he cannot lift then he is not all-powerful, but if he can't make a rock that he cannot lift then he is not all-powerful?

Another thing, no matter how you look at who made what in the end there was nothing that made the first thing. It's not something super hard to understand. It's just that simple, nothing made the first thing that was created. I think as humans we have to keep asking ourselves that because it makes no sense, but that's our problem I guess. We ask too many questions. ;] Which is not always a bad thing. ;p

Anyways, have fun with that atheism shit. I rather just do my own thang. Yeah dig? ;D

While you plebeians sit in your ivory towers and sneer at the commoners beneath you, I'm going to sit in my fucking ivory space elevator, smoke clove cigars, and hate all of you before hating atheists was cool.


I'm not sure who exactly you were targeting here but I'm not hating anyone or sneering.

In fact, you got space in your elevator and smoke for one more? :)
I'm that imaginary number in the parabola of life.
I think we should all just chill out, rent a copy of this movie, and have a good time! =D

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0: 55 - "Do you think they're persecuting Jesus because he's black?" :o LOL

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