[quote name='Chris Reynolds' timestamp='1295568367' post='4762129']
1.) A man died on a cross which somehow saves the entire human race (only a TINY fraction of 1% of life that has been on the planet) from living in eternal damnation.
2.) Somehow we are still all born into sin and guilt and should spend our lives repenting and asking for forgiveness.
3.) If you don't do this, you will spend an eternity in a burning bad place - if you do this you will spend eternity in absolute happiness.

My question isn't which God is at the top... it's.. what could possibly make someone read a relic written thousands of years ago that says these things, and nod their head.. "yea... yea.. this makes sense, I'm going with this one."

If you frame the debate in such derogatory language then of course it doesn't make sense that rational people would believe it. But how about you rephrased it like this:

1.) We were granted the gift of life by an omnipotent ruler who had no obligation to do so
2.) The whole reason we were given life was to live in relationship with that generous ruler, and yet we ignore him and live as though he wasn't there
3.) That ruler went out of his way to call us back to him by stepping into his own creation, taking on human form and suffering the consequences of our rejection in our place, and yet STILL we ignore him
4.) That ruler eventually gives people what they ask for and puts them out of his presence forever, but graciously allows those who accept his rescue to be in his presence forever

Of course, that's also a pretty biased way of presenting it, but hopefully you will see that it's simplistic at best to say "I can phrase this in a way that sounds ridiculous and that's sufficient reason to dismiss all those who believe it as loons"
[/quote]
It still sounds silly. You don't seem to understand what's so silly about it.

If you frame the debate in such derogatory language then of course it doesn't make sense that rational people would believe it. But how about you rephrased it like this:

1.) We were granted the gift of life by an omnipotent ruler who had no obligation to do so
2.) The whole reason we were given life was to live in relationship with that generous ruler, and yet we ignore him and live as though he wasn't there
3.) That ruler went out of his way to call us back to him by stepping into his own creation, taking on human form and suffering the consequences of our rejection in our place, and yet STILL we ignore him
4.) That ruler eventually gives people what they ask for and puts them out of his presence forever, but graciously allows those who accept his rescue to be in his presence forever

Of course, that's also a pretty biased way of presenting it, but hopefully you will see that it's simplistic at best to say "I can phrase this in a way that sounds ridiculous and that's sufficient reason to dismiss all those who believe it as loons"

To put this in another way, you choose to believe that stuff because it sounds pleasant to you. That's a pretty common fallacy. It may work for you and it may make you happy or give you peace of mind. That's fine with me, but please accept that there there is no objective rational reason for believing in that stuff.

[quote name='AndyGeers' timestamp='1296905473' post='4769958']
If you frame the debate in such derogatory language then of course it doesn't make sense that rational people would believe it. But how about you rephrased it like this:

1.) We were granted the gift of life by an omnipotent ruler who had no obligation to do so
2.) The whole reason we were given life was to live in relationship with that generous ruler, and yet we ignore him and live as though he wasn't there
3.) That ruler went out of his way to call us back to him by stepping into his own creation, taking on human form and suffering the consequences of our rejection in our place, and yet STILL we ignore him
4.) That ruler eventually gives people what they ask for and puts them out of his presence forever, but graciously allows those who accept his rescue to be in his presence forever

Of course, that's also a pretty biased way of presenting it, but hopefully you will see that it's simplistic at best to say "I can phrase this in a way that sounds ridiculous and that's sufficient reason to dismiss all those who believe it as loons"

To put this in another way, you choose to believe that stuff because it sounds pleasant to you. That's a pretty common fallacy.
[/quote]

It would be a pretty common fallacy if what you said followed from what he said, but it doesn't.

[quote name='AndyGeers' timestamp='1296905473' post='4769958']
If you frame the debate in such derogatory language then of course it doesn't make sense that rational people would believe it. But how about you rephrased it like this:

1.) We were granted the gift of life by an omnipotent ruler who had no obligation to do so
2.) The whole reason we were given life was to live in relationship with that generous ruler, and yet we ignore him and live as though he wasn't there
3.) That ruler went out of his way to call us back to him by stepping into his own creation, taking on human form and suffering the consequences of our rejection in our place, and yet STILL we ignore him
4.) That ruler eventually gives people what they ask for and puts them out of his presence forever, but graciously allows those who accept his rescue to be in his presence forever

Of course, that's also a pretty biased way of presenting it, but hopefully you will see that it's simplistic at best to say "I can phrase this in a way that sounds ridiculous and that's sufficient reason to dismiss all those who believe it as loons"

To put this in another way, you choose to believe that stuff because it sounds pleasant to you. That's a pretty common fallacy. It may work for you and it may make you happy or give you peace of mind. That's fine with me, but please accept that there there is no objective rational reason for believing in that stuff.
[/quote]

Yeah there is. People die from stress related problems everyday. To combat this, people pick up hobbies and things to do. Some go bike riding, some meditate, some clean the house excessively(LoL), some blow all their money on beer and drugs,and some join a religious group(omg!).

If you were feeling lonely, you could walk into a church and instantly and easily make some friends. That's beneficial to society...there's no way that it's not. And let's not forget that every-time there's a major uprising, religion fuels the people to change things. It happened w/ the formation of the United States, then w/ African Americans in the south.

[quote name='Prefect' timestamp='1296999399' post='4770399']
[quote name='AndyGeers' timestamp='1296905473' post='4769958']
If you frame the debate in such derogatory language then of course it doesn't make sense that rational people would believe it. But how about you rephrased it like this:

1.) We were granted the gift of life by an omnipotent ruler who had no obligation to do so
2.) The whole reason we were given life was to live in relationship with that generous ruler, and yet we ignore him and live as though he wasn't there
3.) That ruler went out of his way to call us back to him by stepping into his own creation, taking on human form and suffering the consequences of our rejection in our place, and yet STILL we ignore him
4.) That ruler eventually gives people what they ask for and puts them out of his presence forever, but graciously allows those who accept his rescue to be in his presence forever

Of course, that's also a pretty biased way of presenting it, but hopefully you will see that it's simplistic at best to say "I can phrase this in a way that sounds ridiculous and that's sufficient reason to dismiss all those who believe it as loons"

To put this in another way, you choose to believe that stuff because it sounds pleasant to you. That's a pretty common fallacy. It may work for you and it may make you happy or give you peace of mind. That's fine with me, but please accept that there there is no objective rational reason for believing in that stuff.
[/quote]

Yeah there is. People die from stress related problems everyday. To combat this, people pick up hobbies and things to do. Some go bike riding, some meditate, some clean the house excessively(LoL), some blow all their money on beer and drugs,and some join a religious group(omg!).

If you were feeling lonely, you could walk into a church and instantly and easily make some friends. That's beneficial to society...there's no way that it's not. And let's not forget that every-time there's a major uprising, religion fuels the people to change things. It happened w/ the formation of the United States, then w/ African Americans in the south.
[/quote]


I can't deny that religion makes people feel better. It can also get people together socially, meet people and make friends. It may stop people committing crime due to fear of how they will be punished after death. Religion may be beneficial to society (although I could argue that just as much, if not more harm is caused to society by religion). But just because it is (lets pretend it is) good for society, doesn't mean it is true.

I read and watch many things online and tv about this subject. Someone mentioned about alien creating us and watching over us. I think that's false! My theory which seems more believeable and plausible. That famous Moses and the crossing of the Red Sea where the water separated and help them surivive thanks to god. One theory that I think could be true (no hard evidence but explains it scientifically) is that an alien has an electromagical force that created the effect to help Moses. Why Moses of all people in the world? No idea! In the bibles there's always reference to a bright light in the sky, and alien aircrafts or even human aircraft today are known to have bright lights. Sometimes unknown to those people back then won't think of it as alien but as something holy. So instead of praying to "God", we were praying to an unknown being from another world.

Sounds crazy, and I don't know if I believe it 100% due to the question, why only certain people? Yet there are certain nowadays who were somehow aducted by aliens. Who knows?
I believe in "God" as an entity but I mostly go on with life by having good morals, but I don't feel its neccessary for me to go to church everyday... read the bible everything. As long as you are a good person and do what's wrong to the best of your knowledge, your life will be filled with happiness.

Thus the reason why I makes and play video games.

(If you interested, you should check out UFO Files: UFOs in the Bible.. which is episode three on season 1. You can view all parts in YouTube which is what I did. lol)

I read and watch many things online and tv about this subject. Someone mentioned about alien creating us and watching over us. I think that's false! My theory which seems more believeable and plausible. That famous Moses and the crossing of the Red Sea where the water separated and help them surivive thanks to god. One theory that I think could be true (no hard evidence but explains it scientifically) is that an alien has an electromagical force that created the effect to help Moses. Why Moses of all people in the world? No idea! In the bibles there's always reference to a bright light in the sky, and alien aircrafts or even human aircraft today are known to have bright lights. Sometimes unknown to those people back then won't think of it as alien but as something holy. So instead of praying to "God", we were praying to an unknown being from another world.

Sounds crazy, and I don't know if I believe it 100% due to the question, why only certain people? Yet there are certain nowadays who were somehow aducted by aliens. Who knows?
I believe in "God" as an entity but I mostly go on with life by having good morals, but I don't feel its neccessary for me to go to church everyday... read the bible everything. As long as you are a good person and do what's wrong to the best of your knowledge, your life will be filled with happiness.

Thus the reason why I makes and play video games.

(If you interested, you should check out UFO Files: UFOs in the Bible.. which is episode three on season 1. You can view all parts in YouTube which is what I did. lol)

You necro'd this thread to post that?

I believe in "God" as an entity but I mostly go on with life by having good morals, but I don't feel its neccessary for me to go to church everyday... read the bible everything. As long as you are a good person and do what's wrong to the best of your knowledge, your life will be filled with happiness.

Umm, I'm assuming you mean "right"? Your life might be filled with happiness, but it's what happens after your life ends that's more important IMO if you believe in God.

What kind of entity and do you mean the Christian God? If so, how do you reconcile just having good morals with what the Bible says?

[quote name='Zeypher' timestamp='1301101359' post='4790544']
I believe in "God" as an entity but I mostly go on with life by having good morals, but I don't feel its neccessary for me to go to church everyday... read the bible everything. As long as you are a good person and do what's wrong to the best of your knowledge, your life will be filled with happiness.

Umm, I'm assuming you mean "right"? Your life might be filled with happiness, but it's what happens after your life ends that's more important IMO if you believe in God.[/quote]
When you say more important, do you mean in the "make sure I don't go to Hell" sense of important? Because if that's what you're saying, then that sounds pretty selfish.

What kind of entity and do you mean the Christian God? If so, how do you reconcile just having good morals with what the Bible says?
[/quote]
By good morals, I take it to imply good acts as well. However, if you believe in God (faith) and perform good acts and strive to be good in the moral sense, then how does that contradict the main message of Christ, or the Bible?

For the love of god (hehe) let it die already!