Since when was a Burqa a Symbol of Islam? Non-Islamic people do choose to wear them after all. Banning a woman from wearing one is no better than banning a woman from wearing anything more covering than a bikini.

If a family wishes to bring their children up with the habit of wearing them, then they should be allowed. (And when old enough said children have the the right to leave and live as they wish.) This is no different than a parent not allowing their child to wear a short skirt.

I have several classmates who wear traditional styles of clothing from highly Islamic regions, (Given that this is Canada, none of them wear the veil with it.) and they do it out of choice. Believe it or not, but some women want to wear such clothing. Not every women wants to wear something that leaves men staring at them, and constantly judging their bodies.


Frankly, I find the "All women should be supermodels!" ideas that are pushed on western societies to be far more oppressive and hurtful.

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Original post by wulfhart Both force unwanted ideals onto its citizens.

You know, you can agree or disagree with this move, but fact is that this law is backed by an overwhelming majority of the population. Sure, it may be so due to fear of Islam (maybe justified, maybe not), fear of cultural dilution and general xenophoby to some extent - but in the end, it was an entirely democratic process. And while it is the duty of a democratic government to protect minorities, I don't think that religion is protection worthy at all.

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Original post by wulfhart With France's tendency toward forced secularization of public spaces, I have the urge to tattoo myself with every religious symbol I can find all over my body to the extent they force me to wear a burqa to hide all of them.

This secularization is a logical consequence resulting from a growing tendency of the general population in this country to become non-religious. In fact, the open display of religiosity (regardless of specific faith) is often considered a public nuisance over here - not by the government, but by an ever growing majority of the population.

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Sure, it may be so due to fear of Islam (maybe justified, maybe not), fear of cultural dilution and general xenophoby to some extent - but in the end, it was an entirely democratic process.

Banning burqas does not solve ANY of those "problems". If France wants "solve these issues" it will have to either start deporting and/or killing people. Since France is already trying the deporting method I am guessing that won't work. Look at history, forcing people to live by another's ideals has never worked without massive death or slavery being involved.

I had a whole bunch more retorts, but I realized it was off of what the OP asked.

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Will France be the new country to hate on for terrorists?

I am pretty sure they are already on the list. I am sure France will become more violent after the police start enforcing this new code. What would you do if the police were forcing your wives to take the burqas off in public. (i.e. moral equivalent (for some Muslims) of getting naked in the street)

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Original post by ChaosEngine Instead of banning religious symbols, my approach would simply be to remove the protection afforded to religion. Want to wear a burqa in public? No problem. Want to come into my place of business wearing one? Not if I don't like it. And your religion is no excuse. It accomplishes the same thing without the state mandating a dress code.

And what about business that don't want to serve people from other ethnic groups? For example, No Maoris, No Arabs, No Chinese? Allowing businesses to discriminate along the lines of your suggestion was a keystone of segregation here in the USA during the Jim Crow era.

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Original post by Yann L I view religion as being something totally private, that has no place in public. Everybody should be free to do as he pleases within his own walls. But I personally think a totally secular (ie. religion free) common public space to be of higher value to society as freedom of religion. But this needs to be applied to all religions equally.

While I understand generally what you mean, I have to disagree here. I'm not a religious person but I think banning religion in public places would set a dangerous precedent. It starts with banning people wearing burqas, crosses, or whatever. Now I can sit in the park and see that no one is wearing any religious symbols. Oh, wait! What's that I see over there? Is that a cross on top of that church? If we're not allowed to wear crosses then why should anyone have the right to display a cross in a publicly visible area? What about religious speech? Should Mormons be banned from going door to door? (I would say yes, but that's just because I find this annoying and Kirby salespeople are easier to send away than these kids). What if I'm out on a walk and sneeze, and some passerby says "God bless you?" Should this qualify as banned public religion?

I'm all for religious freedom, freedom of expression and other things, but like to be able to see peoples faces when I meet them in public places. I also don't believe that this was banned because it's a religious symbol.
Phrased another way, people wearing burqas are just plain creepy. /IMO etc. etc.

Men with money and power try to use their influence to force women into (or out of) certain clothes - what's new about it? Whether it's some delusional bearded imam who's misinterpreting the Quran or if it's President France pretending to defend liberty isn't really of any consequence.

While I do think that religion is always a problem and should never be allowed any special treatment, making the wearing of a certain type of clothing illegal is just wrong, no matter what the clothing in question is. This isn't about secularisation but a symptom the massive wave of xenophobia that's currently sweeping across Europe (and the rest of the world, for that matter.) France seems to be hit particularly hard; just look at their recent deportation of roma.

This is the eugenics fad of the 20th century returned from the grave, except we've replaced the word "race" by "ethnicity and culture," and the muslim has replaced the jew as the bogeyman threatening the very fabric of our society, which somehow makes it legitimate all over again. I guess us Europeans can never be happy unless we can proclaim supremacy over some lesser race cultures and blame them when the shit hits the fan.

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Original post by Konfusius I'm all for religious freedom, freedom of expression and other things, but like to be able to see peoples faces when I meet them in public places. I also don't believe that this was banned because it's a religious symbol. Phrased another way, people wearing burqas are just plain creepy. /IMO etc. etc.

So are people with excessive tattoos, punk hair styles, piercings all over, really bad breath, etc. I'd say that being so obsessed about looking at people's faces that you want to send them to jail if you can't is pretty damn creepy.

Quoting Sarkozy:

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We cannot accept, in our country, women imprisoned behind a mesh, cut off from society, deprived of all identity. That is not the French republic's idea of women's dignity.

Is France entitled to follow such philosophy? I wonder why not?

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Original post by owl Quoting Sarkozy: Quote: We cannot accept, in our country, women imprisoned behind a mesh, cut off from society, deprived of all identity. That is not the French republic's idea of women's dignity. Is France entitled to follow such philosopy? I wonder why not?

Let's pretend for a moment that this really is about promoting liberty for the handful of muslim women that do wear a burqa; what do you think it would accomplish? Will their evil, repressing husbands read the newspaper and exclaim by Allah, they're right! I've been wrong all this time - cast off thy bulky wrapping and be free? Hardly. Any preschooler could figure out that they'd just keep their wrapped-up wife locked up and segregated from the rest of society even more. How is that promoting liberty for those women?

How many women are being forced to wear a burqa anyway? Does there even exist scientific proof that this is indeed a problem, or is President France just guessing about it?

If King France is so interested in women's rights, perhaps he should start with domestic violence, which apparently kills one woman every five days. (Or at least did 10 years ago - I doubt that anything has changed siginficantly since then.) Oh wait, aryan frenchmen also beat their wives - he'd have to turn on some of his own people rather than uniting them against the evil muslim invaders come to steal the French culture and detonate themselves in the streets.