Hi creative boys & girls,

Sorry if this is a silly question but… just out of curiosity: What does it take to attract you to a game-project (except for the money)?

There are dozens of amateur/hobby projects that ask for mappers, modelers, texture artists, sound engineers, writers, and so on. No matter how fancy your programming skills are, somewhat more ambitious/graphical games can't do without creative talent. As you can guess, I'm getting stuck with the same problem. Although I have some experience with modeling, drawing and a little bit animating, these skills are not good enough to get what I want. A head full of ideas, but not the manpower, nor the talent to get it actually done. Frustrating.


Now before you think I'm begging for help here, No, not yet. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I were an artist, I would only apply for a project if it has proven its potential. Story wise, gameplay wise, maybe graphically wise. After all, you don't just give up your spare time to model/draw/compose for some (unpaid) project. Especially not with the knowledge that many of those ambitious ideas never actually get realized. Therefore I'm first trying to do my own homework; making the game-documentation, building an engine, and creating a (small) showcase movie to prove it "works". Hey, I can’t expect “professional“ help if my own part of the job isn’t even working right?

Nevertheless, you got to start somewhere. And teams of fanatic people are still making MODs, map packs, or even (small) games. Guess having fun is the most important factor maybe. But what exactly sounds like a fun project for creative people like you? In the near future I'll probably start looking for a mapper/texture artist to start with, but I'm kind of afraid no one will be interested for just another hobby project... Got some tips? Or maybe you could tell your experience with other (hobby) projects you joined? Thanks!

Rick

Quote: I would only apply for a project if it has proven its potential.

Yes. Braid is a good example of this. Program first, find artist later.

If someone joins a project with no proof that it has any chance of succeeding then it's likely that they don't know what they are doing. If they don't know what they are doing, you don't really want them on your team anyways. You can get lucky this way sometimes but why leave your success to chance when you can ensure it?

Unfortunately for me (others maybe too?) When it comes to a hobbie project it seems to me that keeping an artist interested in the project would be a real challenge. I have had people ask me to do work for them, i said i would be glad to help, and after a few followups on things they just lost contact. Communication between people is important. When an artist doesnt get feedback on his work, (doesnt matter good or bad.) It seems like people have lost interest. If im doing art for something that is not my original creative concept, it is hard for me to work without direction. I think that all boils down to a solid plan and structured teamwork and leadership. In my case i have a project idea as an artist, but i am very week as a programmer. For me to get a team together, getting an initial hand with the programming is going to be a chore. My art is going to have to create a spark in someone that will motivate them to helping me. I think it works the other way around as well like stated above though. Quality progress and solid ideas are going to attract solid artists.

Yeah, I recognize that. From the few "hobby" projects I have seen, people would start fanatically with modeling, drawing or even making music. But the next step is to see your work getting used. I mean that's the satisfying part right? If I made a character model, I would like to play with it. Or at least see a movie/screenshots in case I don't have access to something playable. But mostly the work remains in the mailbox, or there is no engine/game yet at all. From that point the motivation drops like a brick.

Therefore I think it's a good idea to finish something myself first. If I can play or at least walk through my own crappy maps, then there is a foundation. From then on its just a matter of importing models, maps, replacing textures, and so on. I'm quite happy when I see my own stuff working, so that would certainly count for artists.


The other points you mentioned seem very true as well. One of the projects I saw managed to assemble quite a big team, from programmers to artists. I whish I could do that. But even with all that manpower, people just didn't know what to do. Maybe I'm wrong, but I guess an artists likes to have a a clear listing with "things-to-do" instead of toying around a little bit with some test-models that *may* get used some day.

Having a clear plan together is crucial. But then another problem arises. Everyone is full of ideas, and likes to add them somehow. One day the game is going to be a shooter with aliens, the next day it will be a football thriller again. Stick to the plan!

Thanks for your replies guys!

Me personally, I'm a designer first and an artist something like third, so I'd pretty much only donate art to a project where I was either a co-designer, or I loved the design because it was what I would have wanted if I had been involved.

Quote: Original post by spek
Yeah, I recognize that. From the few "hobby" projects I have seen, people would start fanatically with modeling, drawing or even making music. But the next step is to see your work getting used. I mean that's the satisfying part right? If I made a character model, I would like to play with it. Or at least see a movie/screenshots in case I don't have access to something playable. But mostly the work remains in the mailbox, or there is no engine/game yet at all. From that point the motivation drops like a brick.

Therefore I think it's a good idea to finish something myself first. If I can play or at least walk through my own crappy maps, then there is a foundation. From then on its just a matter of importing models, maps, replacing textures, and so on. I'm quite happy when I see my own stuff working, so that would certainly count for artists.


The other points you mentioned seem very true as well. One of the projects I saw managed to assemble quite a big team, from programmers to artists. I whish I could do that. But even with all that manpower, people just didn't know what to do. Maybe I'm wrong, but I guess an artists likes to have a a clear listing with "things-to-do" instead of toying around a little bit with some test-models that *may* get used some day.

Having a clear plan together is crucial. But then another problem arises. Everyone is full of ideas, and likes to add them somehow. One day the game is going to be a shooter with aliens, the next day it will be a football thriller again. Stick to the plan!

Thanks for your replies guys!

Well, having my own experiences with 3 week artists, I would sugguest to do the following (just my two cents):

1. Don't advert your game with crappy placeholder visuals ! Artists are artists, that is they like good art and will not see the magic code behind the crappy placeholder visuals.

2. Before adverticing your game to potential artists, have a working demo or some videos with nice art! Invest some money, you can buy some nice models from 3drt or dex-soft for around $100. Maybe the art is good enough to fit your requirements.

3. Try to learn to handle art tools like blender and gimp. You will need this as lone developer. You will always need to create some placeholders or tweak given art. With some practise you will be able to create your own art. It is more convenient for the artist if you take some technical burden from him. If he delivers some nice models but it needs to be tweaked (normals, texture coords etc.), tweak it for him. You want him to work for you without any money, so try to take over tasks you can do yourself.

4. Do you really need an artist ? Take a look at games like the incredible successful minecraft or visual impressive LOVE. You can choose an art style which really don't need lot of artistic skills. Minecraft is a wonderous example, but a technically shader approach like in LOVE is a fantastic approach too.

Eventually, read some postmortems of indi projects. Most teams invest money to get art, that's it. I would buy some art or go for 4.

Good luck !

If I understand you guys right, you need art to attract art. That makes sense. The only problem is that you would need something beautiful first, which on itself requires an artist. Chichken-or-Egg story. Never thought about buying media though.
Although most of the work in my particular case would start with creating maps, which is custom-made stuff. Textures or sound on the other hand...

Luckily I do have some basic skills. So far I did all the modeling and some of the texturing (including the technical part like extracting normalMaps) myself. As we speak, I'm actually creating a showcase movie (see blog link). The only question is, would it be good enough...? I can imagine a few ok-looking visuals isn't enough to pull someone over.

No idea how or IF artists are looking for projects. Are they searching around the internet in hope they can join something? And ifso, what's more important, a good game-idea or the already present visuals? I would think a skilled person rolls right into the (paid) industry anyway. But maybe that is a wrong assumption. Many skilled programmers are hoping for good artists to join their (spare-time) hobby. Maybe the same goes for artists...

Cheers,
Rick

Quote: Original post by spek

No idea how or IF artists are looking for projects. Are they searching around the internet in hope they can join something? And ifso, what's more important, a good game-idea or the already present visuals? I would think a skilled person rolls right into the (paid) industry anyway. But maybe that is a wrong assumption. Many skilled programmers are hoping for good artists to join their (spare-time) hobby. Maybe the same goes for artists...

I think that you're on the right track that there're by far more coders looking for artists than artists looking for coders. The main problem is, that people want to realize their own dream and an artist who looks for coders who is able to visualize his dream on his own has some major advantage :/

But... looking at your blog I'm really impressed by your game sofar ! Even if it is mostly rooms and corridors you got a really nice engine with an really impressive look. From the look it seems to be like a survival horror game , isn't it ? With the right make up your chances are quite high to attract some artists cause your game seems to have a high potential!

Try to post some screens to the image of the day thread to get some feedback. I wish you luck in finding some artists.

Thank you!

I was already affraid the programmer-artist ratio wasn't 1:1 :) That's why I thought let's ask here what an artist is looking for.

It's a horror game indeed, although making really scary pictures requires, yes, an artist. Athmosphere in games like (the older)Resident Evil or Silent Hill is almost more important than the gameplay itself. About the corridors, the whole thing takes place in a big flat. Although that doesn't mean you have to expect a normal apartment behind every door... But again, it needs a creative(and sick) soul to design such environments!

I'm planning to post a movie on gamedev indeed. But I need a few more months before it's ready.

Thanks for the feedback!
Rick

Huhu!

I totally understand the problem you are dealing with! (I´m an german "artist" and graphic-designer myself)

So... here is some shocking truth :)

I catch myselfe browsing trough different forums every day! Not just on weekly base. It´s more like beeing on "hunt" and picking out the "fitting" projects which suppose to offer most "glory". (Not that i, ore most others would really respond in the end... you should think of that more like a "knowing your opportunities and given chances" which you could pick of someday-if you must ore want, i guess i´m too "realistic", so i don´t look up much. Just the ones i see workable)

Artists/designer can see (At last most artists/designer think of it that way) with just one single look at a post, if the project looks promissing ore not. (even if they are wrong and the project is still sucessfull, it wont really matter, becouse "the artist/designer classificied" it as not promissing to himselfe.)

Keep in mind that most artists which actually went to artschool are being teached to look up artistic magazines+++, newest art conventions etc, working with macs and really belive in their fancy "design stuff".
So they really do look for each single "typo"-thing, your use of fonts, your use of pictures, the logic behind your post structure, the angle you shot your screenshots, the way you have written your introduction...
Everything... couse artists are creazy.
They dont care if you think "what looks good yourway" they want it to look good "theirway", not becouse they are egomanics (well i hope), but becouse they belive its the right thing to do. Sometimes they may be right (sorry to say, but i know too many bad decisions), but sometimes they act just like "I´m the artist".
And i have to admit... its really difficult to not act as an "artist/designer", becouse once you entered this stage in your head you really can´t help yourselfe "decoding" what you see. I really hate of being like that, but can´t in another way. When i see a poster of somekind, you would maybe say: "Wow, the Band XYZ is having a concert here!", but i would say "Why the hell has the artist chosen to place the date here, no one will notice if at a distance of 4m... why helvetica, its not fitting the bands style, why the f*** has he made this "e" a bit smaller then the oter~~~, it´s looking like etc.etc.".
Most times i catch me don´t even looking at the information, its like the whole world changed focus to other things~ like "useability".

Most artists don´t look up the big projects!
This is a major misunderstanding part by some project-offerers.
Big projects are simply not artistic, they are time consuming, much work and are easely "overdone", they loose all artistic features which were planned, couse there is simply too much for one to "control".
(Its like designing a magazine... designing a 10-20 pages it´s cool becouse you can work on each single pice, since you have an overview, but if it gets more you start putting in "dublicated" things, "stretchers" and "make stylesheets". It gets more of a planned how to "workarround" instead of a "work-on")
Small-normal projects are good to work, don´t get you bored (dublicating stuff), and don´t make an artist/designer loose focus.

Most artists like "critique"!!! (Important point, hoping no one of my clients gets offended here!), it´s not meant rude in any way, but maybe a point of improvment to some :)
I worked on a lot of projects with a lot of persons:
And not a SINGLE one seemed to show really an interrest to what i was actually doing. It was just like this:

_Programmer: "I´ld need this sprite here... maybe looking like this ore this, but you can come up with something of your own if you want!"

_Artist: "Well... ok, i tried to make things fit with the current style, couse i choose, becouse i´ve done, becouse i thought etcetcetc."

_Programmer: "Ah, thanks, looks great!"

Artists thinks: "Wtf? COME ON! What about it did you like? Talk with me, keep me involved into "our" project"

But it gets even worse if the answer is like that:

_Programmer: "Hm... ok, not what i expected, but i think it works just fine!"

Personally i coul´d have killed everyone coming up with a sentence like that, but i can´t becouse there is always the fear: "He is the programmer... he could easely dump you and search for a new artist". (Besides, i know the answer is not meant rude in any way... they just don´t know how it is like, working on the other end...)

The funny thing is: My post doesen´t really look "fancy", but i want others too look... attracting?

Simon
(Hope i didn´t scare of any future clients, i´m actually a really nice guy! They say! ;) )