Quote: Original post by Prune
Promit, I'm too old to troll, and it feels like you are unfairly targeting me because our views are not aligned. I clearly feel strongly about the issue and thought I'd spread the word, as it were (i.e. the article), thinking I would get some interesting replies (which I did, even if I disagree with most of them).

Trying to work the ref eh? For what it's worth, Promit is the moderator here. I'm just as liable to his sanction as you, so don't worry about arguing with me, but take care arguing with him.

Quote: Original post by Quasimojo
I would agree with you there, except replace the word "bad" with "grossly incompetent and heinously irresponsible". I'm sure he *has* done some good things. The trouble is that nothing in that regard is even remotely as good as the rest is bad. It's like saying Hitler wasn't all bad, because he never once cheated on his taxes.

A valid opinion (although the Godwin is quite a bit of hyperbole). My personal opinion is that we are making some progress but not enough and not fast enough, and part of that is due to the fact that Obama is being fairly weak politically. I'd probably rate him a 3.5-4 out of 10, while Bush Jr. was a 2. A lot of my opinion rests on whether his administration influence legislative policy enough to get the economy to turn around, but the outlook is not so good on that.

In regard to invoking "State Secrets" to block investigation into the Bush administration's actions... I recognize that there may be some operational-security issues with secret information that aired, and that it may not be possible to nail the Bush administration. However, its important to take those risks, because its importance that the public have confidence that the government can handle situations requiring secrecy justly, and properly punish offenses when it doesn't handle it correctly. As it stands now, this ruling is a message that the executive branch does not have accountability.

By the way, here is Snopes rundown on Soros: George Soros, Nazi collaborator. Soros is Jewish. His father "bribed a government official to take 14-year-old George Soros in and swear that he was his Christian godson." ... "George Soros accompanied his phony godfather on his appointed rounds, confiscating property from the Jews."

Quote: Original post by LessBread
The hypocrisy of the left? Oh please! The Pope was a Nazi collaborator! (And still is quite fascist in some ways if you ask me). The Koch brothers fund astroturf groups in order to promote their financial agenda. They talk up free market principles even as they take massive subsidies from the government. Talk about hypocrites!

I agree with all of this, but from my point of view this is more well publicized by media than the similar sins of the left. I have no love of republicans, neocons, etc. (and certainly not the pope, as I am an atheist) either, but I think the heavy reaction against them by media distracts from the failings of the other side, and so my intention is to put some focus onto that as well.

Quote: Your disgust with the people is obvious.

Not disgust, but disappointment. My disgust is at populist politics. As I've pointed out in a previous thread, I have low regard for democracy, both for the theoretical reasons brought on by the research of Arrow and so on that mean true democracy is not possible even theoretically, and for practical impossibilities of implementing even the pseudodemocracies that are theoretically possible, instead leading to forms of government that invariably result in more human suffering than should be warranted.

Quote: Original post by Prune
What I've encountered though in Lounge is dismissal and mean-spiritedness towards me that stand in stark contrast to the rest of the forum sections at gamedev.net, where I've been more or less treated politely and carried on reasonable discussion.

Quote: Original post by Prune
Hear this, folks? It's the sound of me LOLing at the naive fools that saw hope in Obama.

If you cannot understand the problem here, get out of the Lounge before you're thrown out. If you can understand the problem, then my point of view should be clear.

Quote: Original post by Rycross
As it stands now, this ruling is a message that the executive branch does not have accountability.

Yes, that is why I focused my criticism on the judiciary, which is supposed to act as the check that provides that accountability.

"the president and the entire executive branch's purpose is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it."

At least that's what my Kindle says.

Quote: Original post by Prune

Quote: Your disgust with the people is obvious.

Not disgust, but disappointment. My disgust is at populist politics. As I've pointed out in a previous thread, I have low regard for democracy, both for the theoretical reasons brought on by the research of Arrow and so on that mean true democracy is not possible even theoretically, and for practical impossibilities of implementing even the pseudodemocracies that are theoretically possible, instead leading to forms of government that invariably result in more human suffering than should be warranted.

Kenneth Arrow? As referenced here: Does Economic Success Require Democracy? If so, Arrow puts the cart before the horse.

I understand the problem but I think it is overblown. I was being a bit provocative, not pugilistic.

Quote: Original post by LessBread
Kenneth Arrow? As referenced here: Does Economic Success Require Democracy? If so, Arrow puts the cart before the horse.

I suggest you read the set of voting criteria Arrow considers and shows to form an inconsistent, self-contradictory system, rather than some news article, as well as about how transitivity of voting preferences is lost when one moves from an individual to a population (itself an indicator that the very concept of aggregation of preferences is meaningless). I object to the description of Arrow's theorem in the article, and the rest of the article really has nothing to do with Arrow's theorem at all.