Hi all, There is several things I want to tell about in this post. First is that you should check out www.javagaming.org. It is a Sun based site made for Java gaming. The site doesn''t contain much info but the forums a generally better than this one so you should it out. There is is some hefty people hanging out there, including several Sun Java engineers, including some that are on the Java Game Profile expert team. Among the engineers are Chris Melissinos and Jeff Kesselman. The last one is best known as being one of the author of the "Java Platform Performance: Strategies and Tactics.". Also hanging out there are Jack Shirazi, author of the "Java Performance Tuning" from O''Reilly. After some furious discussions with Jeff he has convinced me that my article, "Why Java can be used for games" itself contained a number of myths and that my conclusions are wrong (Snowmoon, if you read this, rejoice!) so I have rewritten many parts of it hopefully getting much closer to reality. If you don''t have the links here it is: http://www.rolemaker.dk/articles/WhyJavaCanBeUsedForGames/index.htm And for those of you that hasn''t heard anything about Jamid, it is a Quake clone game written in pure Java. It was shown at QuakeCon 2001 in the weekend and it ran impressively - it is a Quake 2 style engine. Even the hard core Quake fans at the con was impressed! Read more about it at www.javagaming.org Jacob Marner