Hi guys, First of all I am relatively new to game designing. What I am about to post now, ist my concept of a mini game I worked on and I want to ask for your opinions on this and how one could do better. Also I would appreciate it if you told me whether its a good idea overall and which parts I should change. So now I trust you with this and hope you will help me out. Also I am no native speaker so I hope you will cut me some slack Title: "Tunnelwars" Avarice City and Greed Town are neighboring dwarven communities located below an underground sea. Between the cities are located mines that contain unimaginable wealth. Yet both Cities refuse to share! Thus both cities send out miners to build tunnels that flood the enemy town. Gameplay: Both cities start with two troops of miners. Both troops can be used to attempt to build a tunnel to flood the enemy town, or start mining the minerals located between the cities. With the wealth that was gained, new minertroops can be purchased. These troops can be used either offensive, trying to dig new tunnels to flood the enemy or make their tunnels crash by digging into them, or defensive to mine more wealth from the minerals in the middle. The target is, to collect 100 units of wealth, or to flood the enemy town. The Setup of the map should look like this: ------------------------- Underground Sea Avarice City-------------------------------------Greed Town ---------------------------- Minerals Key mechanics: -Realtime strategy -Competitive gameplay, min. 2 players (eventually more players could be added) -Let minertroops dig tunnels to destroy enemy tunnels or to seal them with a hatch each miner troop carries with them (limited to 1 hatch per team) -Dig tunnels to flood the enemy (the water will only start to flood the tunnel once the tunnel has an exit -When miner teams leave their hometown the exit is sealed -Use miners to collect wealth -Each miner team sent to collect wealth obtain 1 unit of wealth per 20 seconds for the player -A new miner team costs 2 units of wealth -The player must either collect 100 units of wealth or flood the enemy hometown to win the game -Game balance achieved through competitive gameplay (balance through players) -Communication possible via textchat Target: Mood: competitive gameplay with cuddly artdesign, greedy dwarf cities fighting for wealth Audience: casualgamers or first-time gamers who dont want to spend hours into one match Platform: Steam, Xbox Live, PSN Thanks for your answers. [Edited by - Boklu Sinek on May 24, 2010 6:57:52 PM]

Hi, I think it is a good idea and you should keep going.
This is what I understand from your post.

The Stage:
o The game is a real time strategy game in side view two dimensions.
o The entire playable area is under a sea
o Above Avarice City is solid rock. But if someone keeps digging up, it will reach the sea above and the City will be flooded.
o Same with Greed Town. There is the same sea above Greed Town
o The Minerals area is located below the midpoint between both cities.

The Actions:
o Collecting minerals, and hiring miners aside, the game has two basic actions that affects the map

1) Dig:
o This action changes a location with rock into an empty space.
o Empty space allows miners to pass.
o Water may flow into empty space.

2) Fill:
o This action changes an empty space back into a solid area.
o This blocks the both the flow of water and miners

Question:
o How does a miner dig a path for the water to enter without drowning himself?

Thank you for your answer Wai and for encouraging me!

First of all, I am glad I seem to have managed to present my idea in an understandable fashion.

As for your question, my first idea was for a miner team that digs a tunnel to flood the enemy town, to be lost afterwards.

Still I can not decide between losing that team or giving them the possibility to survive by giving them a remote controlled bomb.

This would make it possible for them to get into safety first before igniting the bomb, since the water will only use the path with the least resistance (ie the shortest way to the exit) on its way.

On the other hand this would make it easier for the enemy miners to place a hatch or let their tunnel crash since they would have more time to react.

Re:

The bomb can also be timed, like in Bomberman. I think if possible, you might want a design with no bomb. Because it you have bombs, the players would want to use the bombs against the opponent's miners directly, and the game would really become Bomberman.

So instead of having bombs, you could have a skill where a miner could pull a chuck of rock toward the miner. So to flood an tunnel with water above, a miner would pull down the rock separating the water from the tunnel. Then the miner would pull the rock towards himself to let the water flow through. To shut the valve, the miner could push the rock back.



What water reaches a miner, the miner becomes encased in a bubble and flows up toward the surface of the sea.


I think the water should have a preference to flow down, then sideway, then up. and fills all empty space it reaches.

o What do you do if a player manages to run the water not to the enemy's town, but down the map to divide the map, such that miners from one town cannot interfere with the miners from the other town? (Does the game end?)

o What do you do if two tunnels connect and the miners from each side can meet face to face? Can they walk pass each other?

o When a miner gets to a treasure spot, does the player automatically gets the credit of the treasure, or does the miner need to bring the treasure back to the city?

[Edited by - Wai on May 25, 2010 12:07:38 PM]

Hm, I think you might be right about the bombs, pushing and pulling rocks to close/open a way for the water is more fitting to the setting I believe.

About the water flow, your idea seems more realistic than mine, since water will spread as far as it can.

If a player manages to split the map by creating a path for the water to run from top to the bottom of the map, the players will simply need a miner to close it by pushing rocks to shut the flow of water.

I really liked your idea of getting surrounded by bubbles and drifting to the top of the sea! I will change it on the concept paper!

Originally I had planned for miner troops to actually wipe each other out when meeting, yet I am open to new ideas.

As for the treasure spot, a miner troop that was sent to a treasure spot will stay at the treasure spot collecting wealth and occasionally send a caravan with the earned minerals to their hometown using the tunnels they digged before.
This would also make it possible for enemies to destroy your source of income by flooding the tunnels the caravans use. A player would have to close the flow of water with a miner troop before proceeding with digging for wealth.

Again thanks for your answer, I really appreciate your criticism!

I like the concept a lot. Have you played PixelJunk Shooter?

I'm imagining you could generalize the game design to be something like Shooter, except it's an RTS instead of a shooter. Could be a lot of fun.

im thinking there should be a fog of war element. so that the player from one side cannot see(untill it is just before too late) that the enemy miners are digging a hole from there tresure tunnel directly to the ocean.

i can immagine a stratagy of tunneling directly to the tresure spot, and then tunneling to the surface from there, essentially using the enemy's own tresure tunnel againsed them.

also, a misleading tactic with the fog of war concept, would there be a way to resevior water, essentially make an underground water capsul that could hold enough water to flood the enemy city, so you could hide a city worth of water just outside of there view withouth any incriminating tunnels to discover. i am actually getting interested in this game now, i want to see some dwarven miner bodies floating to the surface because of my cunning... hehe.

Hey saxmo and Pete,
thank you for your ideas, both of them are worth thinking about. I especially like idea to make storages of water somewhere on the map!
Of course this would only work with a fog of war.

Yet I cannot don't know whether there is going to be something like that, since it would require the miner troops to move really fast to make up for the short time one has to react on an hostile attempt to flood one...

To be honest I haven't played Pixeljunk Shooter even though I own a PS3 but I think I will have a look at it! By gamedesign did you mean the artdesign in particular?

As for your idea of mining towards the treasure spot saxmo, I still am not sure whether the treasure spot will be passable or not.

At Wai: Regarding the matter of miner troops meeting each other I had another idea today.
I thought I could make them fight each other for about 30 seconds and then have them hobble back to their respective hometowns. This would also make it possible to rebuy the injured troops for half the price, that is 1 unit of wealth.
What do you think about this idea?

Once again thank you all for the comments and ideas. I appreciate each and single one of them!

Re: When miners meet

I say let there be no fighting. But when two miners meet, they will toss their pickaxe and start drinking beer. As long as the player does not tell the miner to move, the miner will keep drinking and any opponent miner that runs into it will also start drinking. Once the player tells a drinking miner to move, the miner will be drunk and cannot do anything until he is refreshed at home (the same as your idea). A drunk miner cannot make other miners drink with him. There is no effect if the player walks a drunk miner to the opponent's town. In addition, since the drunk miner loses the ability to move rocks, the opponent can possibly traps it.

The reason I asked it is that if an opponent miner walk free to the opponent's town, it might be quite easy for that miner to saboteur the opponent.

Re:

Wai believe me or not, I had the idea of letting them drink together but tossed it after a collegue told me it was too childish... I still like it and you having the same idea is just great! I think I will implement it like that! Thank you once again for your guidance.

[Edited by - Boklu Sinek on May 27, 2010 3:55:30 AM]