An obsticle in the path of truly dynamic content is the players themselves. The players can be just as imaginative as writers. And players tend to get just as creative as writers so that they get frustrated when something doesn''t work that they think should have been part of the game. To try and cover every aspect is unrealitic even with some set guidelines. Players aren''t going to follow the path designers want, they''re going to rebel in the hopes of making it interesting. It''s great to include as much content as possible making the game as dynamic as possible, but the question remains when do we really have ENOUGH to make it fun.

Wavy : "I was thinking the player could make choices in youth that determine opportunities and resources at the start of the game."

In case you don''t remember I proposed that a year ago, it''s written in Dwarsoft''s "Future of RPG" also.

In fact the whole thing you''ve written, I proposed it a year ago.
Only the italic part I didn''t told about.

So you didn''t invented it :p


-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

Getting back to dynamic structure - surely the other problem is space? A simple example:

The main plot - find the staff of Asherak

sub plot(1) - on the way you stop at a village. Thieves
steal the Lord''s prize cow. He will reward
you for returning it

sub plot (2) - you track the cow, attack the thieves.

The game allows you to kill the thieves. It allows for one thief to run off.

The player would like to pursue the fleeing thief but this is not scripted.

Even if the game allowed pursuit, where does it end? The pursuit takes the player to a wood. The player kills the thief but decides he would like to explore the wood? What I mean is at some stage the player has to be pushed back to the cow and back to the plot.

This would be true even in a dynamic game as first the game needs a plot of some kind otherwise it''s just boring and secondly space on the server means that there must be a barrier to where the player can go.

quote: Original post by Ingenu
In fact the whole thing you''ve written, I proposed it a year ago.
Only the italic part I didn''t told about.

So you didn''t invented it :p

LOL! Really? Well, see, that just goes to show that great minds think alike!!! I''m actually fleshing out a concept I saw years ago in a Megatraveller cRPG. They were so hardcore about it, though, that you could die while rolling up your character.


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quote: Original post by Impossible
The old Infocom text adventure "A Mind Forever Voyaging" had a similar premise.

Yeah! I remember hearing about this on a Gamespot gaming history article. Never played it, though.

quote:
You''re really one of the few people that sees the future of game design not as carefully handscripted storylines, but as dynamic content that reacts to the player''s actions, not the other way around. Hopefully the industry (the real one, not use independents and wannabes) will begin to think this way also. There are far too many game designers that want to be film directors working with polygons instead of actors...

Wow, thanks! I think this is a big philosophy difference. The more reactive games are far more alive to me than even the best rotoscoped, voice acted, polygon character steeped in a well written story. I look at them and say, "that was pretty... but what do I get to do? "

I hope the industry goes this way, too.

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quote: Original post by Ronin_54
I think the Psychic Evaluation is the perfect way to prevent powergaming... May I use it in my game? :p

Heh, feel free! (After all, you''re one of the few souls on the face of the Earth that is creating a SF RPG. I''d give you my spleen if I could spare it! )

quote:
But I also think that playing the childhood first can be a bit... strange to do. I''d rather just have the psych test to ''extrapolate'' my actions in my youth...

Gotcha. That''s why it''s probably good to make it a choice of modes.

I''m really thinking that playing a teen is really not much different than a standard hero, except with the restrictions that come with youth. I''m only thinking of adding it to cement the player in their character, and give them an opportunity to be the quintessential "young hero."

I''d also like to add it so that players can experience a visceral science fiction vignette.

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quote: Original post by Mooglez
The Psych Evaluation is a good idea but I think there needs to have a random factor added in to keep the players from repeating the same optiminum route to get the most attribute/skills/allies.

quote: Original post by Silvermyst
Good idea, but make sure to put enough random factors in it to keep players from powermaxing their characters with picking the ''right'' (best?) choices all the time.

Good point, guys. I hadn''t thought about that one!

quote: Original post by Silvermyst
INTERACTIVE MODE:

Having a character grow up interactively by using the suggested Turning Points seems like a good idea as well. Current MMORPGs (not that these ideas would be limited to that type of game) make a player stick with the character they choose at the beginning, till the very end.

I''ve become curious about how much players would actually bother replaying an RPG, so you''re right, this would allow them to change. They could more be more eclectic about their choice, and even at high levels switch over and have a new experience without having to start from scratch.

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quote: Original post by kerryl
What''s most interesting, Wav, is that the player ends up with a character he can more closely relate to since that character made the same choices the player would have. I think it''s a REALLY good idea and would make quite a difference in the number of casual gamers who would come back to play your game...

Great, I hope so! Thanks!

quote:
I''ve had a thought similar for an RPG game. A "I''ve never played an RPG so help me out" kind of character builder. Something as simple as race and class. Extract some of the characteristics of race and class (if you use a class system) and put them in a little quiz so that your game can recommend a race on the basis of it being a character that will be easier to "stay in character" with.

This is a very cool example. You could widen this, as well, and use it to modify some of the game''s content settings. For instance, you could see how much and what type of action they wanted, whether they liked puzzles, and maybe even where to start them up in the game universe (like some of the Ultimas did).


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quote: Original post by Crydee
In the sort of game you suggest the player gets much more of a free hand. But it still needs some discipline. For example "you build your character by... interacting with NPCs..." Ok so I meet em and kill em. Then what?

I''d like to model player interactions with the completeness that one would model a billiards game. Even if the interactions are simple, it''s important to me that they be complete .

So for our killer player, if I am complete about coding what happpens when you attack a neutral or friendly NPC, and include the notion of degree (injury vs. death), then ideally you''d be able to kill the NPC and go to jail.

quote:
A Turning Point in an educational setting ( whether formal classroom, wise old man etc...)needs the co-operation of the player to a certain extent. Say he tries to kill the teacher. Is some sort of sanction imposed? What are the moral implications of not imposing a sanction?? Should games allowing certain behaviour be published??

These then gets incorporated into your personal backstory: You killed, say, a teacher, went to prison, learned more criminal skills, lost 20 years from your total life span, etc...

quote:
No doubt this gets thrashed over regularly but in the sort of game you suggest it might be a real problem - and we haven''t even touched on sexual conduct / misconduct.

In terms of controversy, whatever is allowable is where you run into trouble. Even though it''s sim-life, it''s still an adventure. So if there''s no interface, no reference, and no mention for undesirable concepts, then they''re not possible.

I have no problem with this because I can make a case for leaving certain controversial things out of the game just as easily as I can make a case for not including thousands of mundane things (teeth brushing; haircuts; appendicitis, etc.)

Where things are allowable, I think you''re safe as long as you present a reactive system that maintains a moral center. So if the ability to kill isn''t restricted, then at least there should be a system of consequences.

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quote: Original post by Crydee
Even if the game allowed pursuit, where does it end? The pursuit takes the player to a wood. The player kills the thief but decides he would like to explore the wood? What I mean is at some stage the player has to be pushed back to the cow and back to the plot.

This would be true even in a dynamic game as first the game needs a plot of some kind otherwise it''s just boring and secondly space on the server means that there must be a barrier to where the player can go.

I don''t have a problem with a bounded universe, if it''s sufficiently large.

As far as the player and plot goes, though... I know I''m committing high treason among cRPG fans, but I think plot is overvalued. After playing what I now consider to be masterpiece cRPGs, the Fallout games, and System Shock, I get the impression that a very maleable world is far more valuable than a well told story.

Now before you pick up that noose , let me say that I do think story has great value. But I''d like to see it used to motivate at startup, and occasionally tempt them in a given direction. But beyond that, freedom is vital, and I think that if the world is reactive enough, the level of interactivity will make up for the lack of a heavy, in-your-face plot.



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