Hey guys, It's been quite a while since I've posted, however a new project has brought me back to GameDev. I often enjoy having a look through the beginners forum to see if I can add my 2 cents to anything, I rarely do since the basic questions that I can easily answer are solved within minutes :), It's a great community. You guys have been a massive help to me when I was a beginner. Recently upon looking through this forum I've noticed something strange. I have dubbed this the "drink from the fire-hose" answer (reference intended :P). To outline what I am talking about I will refer to an example but change some of the details because quite frankly, I'm not here to piss anybody off. As an example, lets say a n00b game developer comes through here and asks something quite simple such as "how do I make my player jump?", The type of answer I shudder to see is an answer along the lines of "Have a look at X Physics API!". I feel that there is no need for a beginner to even look at such options since the young and budding developer might not know how to include one, this option also denies the beginner the knowledge of how to build this simple function him/herself. Besides, Isn't this overkill? I guess I can see that there is an advantage here, applying a complex answer to a simple question does open the mind up for the beginner. This can lead to growth, or it might just overwhelm. I didn't even notice when it happened to me, I just read over them because I didn't understand them, but that's just what I do. Has anybody else seen this, examples, anything to add? I'd especially like to hear from any beginners who have had this done to them.

Well, the thing about this format is that everyone is an unknown. When you answer a question it's not really known what the knowledge or commitment level is of the person asking. Some people need hand holding, others are looking for exactly "check out X API!"

And the same issue applies in reverse. The Asker doesn't know the knowledge level of the person answering either so it's not clear if they are wrong, biased, etc.

We most get around the problem with social signaling--people answering make inference based on the question itself, and the people asking make guessing based on how confident the answerer seems and how much credibility they seem to have in the community.

I guess we could try adding a "I'm a total noob" dropdown option, but I'm not sure that would be an improvement over the soft sorting we do naturally.

I also think that some of the answers in For Beginners are overkill. Sometimes they're a lengthy techy theory that goes on for several pages without really providing a clear answer. I love replying to threads like that with simple clear answers when I can. But I get the impression my programming practices are pretty out dated and some of those lengthy in depth answers would end up being more helpful in the long run.

Sometimes the questions themselves seem insanely advanced for a beginners forum anyway. I guess it makes sense that some of the answers get pretty involved.

You're saying that some answers are bad, and some answers are good. I also hear the sky is blue these days.

I'm not sure what your point is?

Quote: Original post by kseh
I also think that some of the answers in For Beginners are overkill. Sometimes they're a lengthy techy theory that goes on for several pages without really providing a clear answer. I love replying to threads like that with simple clear answers when I can. But I get the impression my programming practices are pretty out dated and some of those lengthy in depth answers would end up being more helpful in the long run.

Sometimes the questions themselves seem insanely advanced for a beginners forum anyway. I guess it makes sense that some of the answers get pretty involved.

the lengthy techy answers are my favorite ones :(

Quote: "drink from the fire-hose"

The proper technical term is "nuking from orbit".

Quote: Original post by jpetrie
You're saying that some answers are bad, and some answers are good. I also hear the sky is blue these days.

I'm not sure what your point is?

Kekeke

Quote: Original post by jpetrie
You're saying that some answers are bad, and some answers are good. I also hear the sky is blue these days.

I'm not sure what your point is?

The point I am trying to make is that sometimes a n00b developer gets hit with an overkill answer and when you break this down to different personalities, yes sometimes this works quite well, other times it might have a face-palm effect.

I understand that you are the moderator on 'For beginners' and let me assure you I mean no disrespect, I only wanted to discuss this and hopefully learn something about this occurrence.

Perhaps better examples are needed to show what I am talking about.

Quote: Original post by Pete Michaud
I guess we could try adding a "I'm a total noob" dropdown option, but I'm not sure that would be an improvement over the soft sorting we do naturally.

AFAIK that's why there's a For Beginners forum in addition to General Programming etc.

Quote: Perhaps better examples are needed to show what I am talking about.

No, I'm pretty sure everyone has a good grasp of what you're talking about. It's not that complicated.

But people wouldn't give gigantic super technical answers if they didn't think it was worth doing, regardless of how impractical it may be for the beginner. Ultimately beginners* should be using Google more and forums less, especially if they're unhappy with the free advice they're being given.

Don't like your forum answers? Try typing "[language] simple [topic] tutorial" into Google. Adding the "simple" really helps, I do it all the time.


*everyone

As a beginner myself, I agree on couple of the views given. I just found this site earlier this month through google when trying to find help in furthering myself as I am at the earliest of stages and was looking for help to understand "whats next". I have just learned the basics of C++ and am currently reading Advanced C++, as well as going back as far as I could in the Beginner's Forum here to see what else I could learn. However, a majority of the threads I have read (dating back to 2004) I would say are more intermediate rather than beginner level, or if a question is asked based off a beginner level it is replied to with an advanced level. Is it the fault of the helper? 50/50. Its the fault of the beginners as the questions are asked without giving the helper a frame of reference to what his skill level is, but it being the "For Beginners" forum, one should deduce that the person asking for help is probably asking for help in the simplest of ways. For example, I had recently asked for some clarification on the use of pointers and their purpose. Ariste had given me a simpleton's explaination of what they are, and what use they could be of. No offense to DevFred, I'm sure it was a great explaination, but his description went way over my head since I am a "noob" and was almost a textbook answer, which is how I got confused on them in the first place.

In all, all I'm trying to say is maybe there should be a "format" (like you have for posting in the help wanted) of how questions should be asked - where they describe what the question is and maybe their skill level is and the languages/programs they are using or knowledgeable in. This way, the helpers would have an easier understanding of how simple to make the explaination.

**Sorry for the long post, just thought maybe it would help a little with the rest of us "noobs"**