Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Quote: Original post by kryat
In the case of Apple, they lost a phone, they got it back in reasonably decent condition, and yet they still have enough legal push to get somebody's house raided to try to either find our or confirm the identity of the person who picked up the phone in the first place. Supposedly, Apple representatives, sans police, have also been said to arrive at the "finders" residence and requested to search the premises. Seriously?

Yeah, I've had my house robbed before, there were eye-witnesses that saw a known criminal from the area carrying bags of stuff from my house. They could have come and printed the door he forced open (his prints are on file) to back up the witnesses, and then get a search warrant, but it wasn't important enough for them. Another time I was mugged/beaten by a group of thugs, again there were witnesses to confirm their identities, but again the police were too lazy and just told me it's a life lesson ("don't go out at night") and to get over it.

Someone else loses a phone and gets their own special police dept out searching homes in a snap...

Only people usually don't admit that they're handling stolen property to millions of users a day,... Which case do you think is easier and quicker to deal with? One with no suspects, or one where one of the suspects is jumping up and down, screaming at the top of his lungs, and waving part of the evidence around?

Quote: Original post by Talroth
Only people usually don't admit that they're handling stolen property to millions of users a day,... Which case do you think is easier and quicker to deal with? One with no suspects, or one where one of the suspects is jumping up and down, screaming at the top of his lungs, and waving part of the evidence around?

I'd still rather the police spend time cracking down on actual criminals than this.

Quote: Original post by Talroth
Only people usually don't admit that they're handling stolen property to millions of users a day,...

There's quite a difference between "handling stolen property" and taking a lost item, finding it's owner, calling them and saying "We have a device, and we think that maybe you misplaced it at a bar, and we would like to give it back". They also admit that they 'got it for $5k', but the "bar guy" says he took this money as an exclusivity deal on his story, not for selling the phone.
This whole thing is a lot murkier than someone breaking into your house and taking your VCR! It's quite possible for gizmodo to try and argue that they had no intentions of theft. I hope you can see that distinction.

Quote: Which case do you think is easier and quicker to deal with? One with no suspects, or one where one of the suspects is jumping up and down, screaming at the top of his lungs, and waving part of the evidence around?

Umm... there's nothing easy or quick about this, it's a huge waste of everyone's time. No one's even been charged with anything. Even proving that a crime took place is a legal quarrel.

Apple hasn't (publicly) accused anyone of stealing their property, or committing any crimes - they lost something, and they got it back. Without there being an accusation of a crime, how can there even be a 'suspect'?

The law is pretty clear that you can't take someones property even if they misplaced it and then sale it ( saying they paid for the exclusive story is kinda weak when he gave them the phone after the exchange of money ). Most laws state you have to turn in the property to the police and if no one clams it in 90 days then u can take ownership.

The DA will probably charge Chen and the original person who "found" it, but it will probably take a week or so for the evidence to gather, but who knows maybe they will bungle the investigation and there won't be any charges.

Apple will probably also file civil suit if they think they have a case, I don't know the IP laws well enough to know if they do.

-ddn

Gah I find this whole thing to be really quite silly in a disgusting kind of way. While the world falls apart people are making a lot of noise about a hand phone. I am going to step up into a meta level and say that I find it sad that we live in such a materialistic society where dissemination of information can get such a negative reaction (all else being equal). Now, I am not overly naive and know that it is the sad state of the human condition where money and power over others is required to get ahead and so would probably also be quite upset if I were able to experience an IP breach on that level.

I do doubt though that I would go so over the top as to send police and investigators everywhere over a lost phone. What's done is done and at the end of the day if this was such a big deal to me I really should have taken better care of it and accept that the probability of such a breach event scales with size and importance and take appropriate measures before the fact and perform necessary corrections internally, after the fact. Without becoming draconian of course. I could never stand for a repressed intellectual corporate culture. Indeed kindness goes a long way towards reciprocating care than instilling an overbearing sense of dread.

Now there are those who would seek to condemn the parties involved in this. But I do not judge them because I know that people over estimate their ability to do the right thing when in an aroused state while they are calm. I would like to say that I wouldn't sell it. And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. But having this doubt makes it more likely that I would do the right thing - in general, admitting you are fallible makes you perform better. But it also makes me reserve *personal* judgement because I know if you put many good people in the right conditions they can do some pretty bad things. Look at human history and psychology experiments in the 60s for more. If I was a judge I'd dismiss the case or impose a further fee on gizmodo, there are a lot worse things happening in the world.

As for me, I'd want to get rid of the device in the most hassle free way as quickly as possible. I do not expect I would ever sell it but I would consider telling (not giving) the media that I had it as a possible option in trying to minimize the cost to my valuable time. But the thing no one has dealt much on is that it would take a lot of work to get people to believe you actually had such a thing in the first place, which is extremely annoying to someone who doesn't really give a darn about a plastic cased palm sized glass screen.

Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Quote: Original post by Talroth
Only people usually don't admit that they're handling stolen property to millions of users a day,...

There's quite a difference between "handling stolen property" and taking a lost item, finding it's owner, calling them and saying "We have a device, and we think that maybe you misplaced it at a bar, and we would like to give it back".

Only, they didn't honestly attempt to return it. The only things I've read about their attempts would be the same as me walking into your house while you're gone, shouting out to ask if the owner is there, walking to your neighbors and asking if they owned your house, and then claiming your house as mine when they said they didn't own it.

I "Found" your house. I "Tried" to give it back, but no one seemed to want it, therefore your house is mine to sell?


This is in the public eye, millions of people are watching this. You can't let millions of people watch someone get away with a crime and do nothing. To do so simply encourages more people to commit minor crimes because clearly they can get away with it. (And this is hardly a minor crime. Very few of you likely wander around with trade secrets in your pocket.)

Quote: Original post by Talroth

Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Quote: Original post by Talroth
Only people usually don't admit that they're handling stolen property to millions of users a day,...

There's quite a difference between "handling stolen property" and taking a lost item, finding it's owner, calling them and saying "We have a device, and we think that maybe you misplaced it at a bar, and we would like to give it back".

Only, they didn't honestly attempt to return it. The only things I've read about their attempts...

The only real information we have is that they called "a lot" of numbers and the Applecare line.

It's a good question to ask. Can a normal person reach a level high enough to know about the security leak or is Apple so secretive that no one outside of Apple can. It's obvious that no one in Applecare can, even though there may be reasons outside of a stolen prototype that they should be able to. It's true that Steve Jobs responds to emails occasionally, but that necessarily doesn't mean he reads all of his emails.

I think I'll email Steve Jobs and ask him.

If they had honestly attempted to return the device, they would have at least sent written letters to Apple and waited, or attempt to go through law enforcement channels.

Quote: Original post by Talroth
If they had honestly attempted to return the device, they would have at least sent written letters to Apple and waited, or attempt to go through law enforcement channels.

before what? They're well within their rights to report that they've seen a new iphone, and their disassembling looks to be on the extent of removing the battery cover. It's not like they signed an NDA with apple over it.

They tried calling apple to no avail. They released their story. Apple finally paid attention, and they returned the lost item. Should they apologize that they have a popular website that actually got Apple's attention and allowed them to return the device?

It's not like apple said "that's ours give it back" and gizmodo was like "NOWAI I FOUND IT ITS MINE!" It was promptly returned to apple.

Quote: Original post by way2lazy2care

Quote: Original post by Talroth
If they had honestly attempted to return the device, they would have at least sent written letters to Apple and waited, or attempt to go through law enforcement channels.

before what? They're well within their rights to report that they've seen a new iphone, and their disassembling looks to be on the extent of removing the battery cover. It's not like they signed an NDA with apple over it.

They tried calling apple to no avail. They released their story. Apple finally paid attention, and they returned the lost item. Should they apologize that they have a popular website that actually got Apple's attention and allowed them to return the device?

It's not like apple said "that's ours give it back" and gizmodo was like "NOWAI I FOUND IT ITS MINE!" It was promptly returned to apple.

After it was sold.