I'm a writer, and I've always wanted to write for/direct a game. Unfortunately: a) I'm a crap artist, and my programming is rudimentary at best b) I get bogged down and/or frustrated by the minutiae of game development (like most writers, I'm a perfectionist control freak) c) Nobody wants to hire a game writer, since game designers either don't care about story, or think they can write it on the side, while juggling their other duties. So, my plan was always to write a popular novel, sell the film rights, and use that money to hire a team of the most talented amateurs I can find (hopefully most of 'em being so starstruck by my presence they'll be easy to swindle -- eh, I mean "convince" :P ). That way I can maintain creative control of the entire process, and the buzz from the movie would be like a massive, big-budget Hollywood advertisement campaign that I wouldn't pay a penny for. If the movie does decently enough in the box office, I could make the most experimental, ground-breaking indie game ever, and publishers would still be desperate to sign it on. Think it'll work? (In theory, I mean. There's probably 1000-to-1 odds on everything going as planned, but for the sake of argument, let's say I'm ridiculously lucky. Or I just try 1000 times.) I'm not the first person ever to think of making an indie game based on his/her own intellectual property (after it's been picked up by a Hollywood studio), am I? Are there any examples of this happening? The one potential flaw I see is concerning copyright issues. It might be hard to retain video game rights through all the negotiations. Think it would be a dealbreaker with most film companies? (Generic, cookie-cutter tie-in games being all the rage these days...) Whatcha reckon?

To frame this into an example:

Take Harry Potter. J.K. Rowling had written 4 books before she was optioned by Warner Bros., and had a major following. She wouldn't have had much trouble negotiating to keep the video game rights. Instead of letting EA churn out a series of generic, mediocre tie-in games designed solely to capitalise on the Harry Potter title, Rowling decides to make her own game. The game has an original, canon storyline, devised by Rowling herself, and has revolutionary gameplay designed by a team of highly-motivated indie developers.

The fans get an amazing game, rather than an exploitative one, J.K. Rowling (or alternatively, me) get to break into game design, the developers launch their careers, and the fat cats get lots of money. Everybody wins.


This of course assumes that:
a) I hit on an idea as good as Harry Potter
b) An agent sees the potential and takes it to the publishers
c) The publishers give it due attention/advertisement
d) It becomes popular, and drums up interest in Hollywood
e) I manage to leverage their interest enough to keep video game rights
f) I manage to find a solid team of game developers who'll work with, and compensate for, my lack of experience in the industry
g) A video game publisher decides to fund us
h) The development goes well
i) The movie does well
and
j) The game gets good reviews

Which is a lot of assumption, but I still find it comforting, because it gives me somewhere to start. Every chapter I finish of my crappy novel gets me closer to the endgame, et cetera.

1> Glad to hear you are a writer. When hiring a writer we do not give programming tests, nor do we ask for art portfolios.

2> If you get bogged down in game development, it means you certainly aren't a game designer.

Unfortunately, it might also mean you aren't a game writer. Game writers must be involved in quite a lot of details. Game scripts diverge and converge in many ways. I understand that managing story trees can become quite complex. Writing for the game means you have a big impact on the design, and the design has a big impact on what you write.

3> Many studios hire game writers, so your claim is incorrect.

You need to be realistic at the employment side. There is a ratio of 50:1 or even 100:1, where studios need just one or two skilled writers even when developing a fairly large game. Game magazines need writers and editors, but it seems every kid with a blog wants to do that for a living. Game publishers need writers on the PR side, and advertisers hire writers and editors.

Whatever role you choose there will be a lot of competition, but jobs are out there.



Your post is interesting in that you want to "maintain creative control of the entire process", yet at the same time, you "get bogged down and/or frustrated by the minutiae".

Creative control means you must be involved in those frustrating details. You cannot have the control without knowing what you are controlling.




Since it sounds like you want to write, get your credentials as a writer. Get your degree in English, or Journalism, or Creative Writing, or whatever fits you best. Then get a job at a game studio. While you are searching for that job, consider working as a game reviewer or whatever else suits your preferences.

Quote: Original post by James Joseph Emerald
I'm a writer,

Everyone's a writer, but are you a published writer?
The answer to that question will go a long way to deciding how difficult it would be to succeed at your plan. Having proven experience and an existing body of work will make it easier to get taken seriously. That isn't to say that first time writers can't succeed, obviously they can, but its easier once you have proven yourself.

As for the rest of your plan it is certainly just as hard to break into Hollywood as it is to break into games. Seems somewhat illogical to go to all the years of effort of getting into Hollywood if that isn't where you want to be; especially as success there doesn't guarantee success in the games industry.

Quote: The one potential flaw I see is concerning copyright issues. It might be hard to retain video game rights through all the negotiations. Think it would be a dealbreaker with most film companies? (Generic, cookie-cutter tie-in games being all the rage these days...)

If you had a proven track record writing hit novels you might have the power to negotiate a deal where you keep the rights. As a first timer I think it would be unlikely.

Thanks for the response, frob!

Hmm, it occurs to me I was a bit unclear on certain points.

1) I wasn't implying that I needed to be a good programmer/artist to be hired as a game writer. I just meant, at least when it comes to indie games, people seem waaay more concerned about programming and art than they are about story. The demand for developers who can't do anything but write is pretty low.

2) Here's where I was a bit too vague. When I said I get "bogged down by game development", I mean I get stuck when I try to do things (especially things I suck at), completely on my own, with no help. I always try to make my own games with programs like "Games Factory" (and its sequels), "Adventure Game Studio", "RPG Toolkit", even the world editor in "Warcraft III" (basically so I don't have to code anything myself), but I always quit in frustration due to random bugs I can't solve, or the tedium of coding and drawing in general.

So, to put it simply, I love spending hours upon hours obsessing over the tiniest details of the art and gameplay mechanics and story, but hate having to actually draw/script/test it all myself. I get bored once the creative process is over. I need minions :P

3) I didn't really say anything about the prospects of being hired by any studio.

In fact, the point of the thread was to discuss my ridiculously optimistic hypothetical idea. It's a thought exercise, in which we pretend that I'm already famous and talented, and am recruiting a team of artists and coders to help me with a project. It's not about me personally, it's about a precedent for something like that happening. i.e. Is there one?



Edit: Obscure, again, good points.

But, see, my dream, first and foremost, is to become a published and well-respected author. I've got my own plans and such on how to accomplish that, which is separate from this plan. This plan, is a subsequent 'branching dream', in which I leverage my fame (perhaps I'm relatively obscure (hehe, pun), but still notable enough to draw attention) to found an indie game studio.

It's good to have branching dreams. A lot of people (like child actors, for example) finally get what they want, peak, and then have no idea what to do next.



Anyway, like I mentioned before, I'm more interested in how plausible it is, rather than how possible it is currently.


Edit2 Oh yeah, and branching into Hollywood isn't part of the plan. Just selling ideas to them.

[Edited by - James Joseph Emerald on March 27, 2010 4:42:44 AM]

Disclaimer: This is going to come off as harsh and blunt. That is partially because I'm a harsh, blunt asshole, and partially because it's 6AM and I haven't slept properly in weeks. In any case, please don't take the rough edges personally - consider it tough love [smile]

Quote: Original post by James Joseph Emerald
1) I wasn't implying that I needed to be a good programmer/artist to be hired as a game writer. I just meant, at least when it comes to indie games, people seem waaay more concerned about programming and art than they are about story. The demand for developers who can't do anything but write is pretty low.

That's because the indie space is very different from the "big leagues." In the indie world, people don't have huge budgets. People don't have a long time to ship a title. Writers are simply a luxury that indie developers can rarely afford. (Not to say that it never happens, but you're looking at a very, very small number of potential clients.)

On the flip side, major AAA-type titles employ writers a fair amount. If you really want to break into game writing, chances are you'll find your best bets for gigs in the more heavily commercial side of the industry. (We really need a good term that means "everyone but the little indie guys" [grin])

Quote: 2) Here's where I was a bit too vague. When I said I get "bogged down by game development", I mean I get stuck when I try to do things (especially things I suck at), completely on my own, with no help. I always try to make my own games with programs like "Games Factory" (and its sequels), "Adventure Game Studio", "RPG Toolkit", even the world editor in "Warcraft III" (basically so I don't have to code anything myself), but I always quit in frustration due to random bugs I can't solve, or the tedium of coding and drawing in general.

Those things will still affect you as a games writer, albeit in a slightly more indirect way. You will still have to learn to work with technical limitations, budget constraints, time limits, matching your work to existing work (you don't get to make all the decisions, after all), and so on. If tedium is a problem, you might want to reconsider this, because writing for a game can become painfully tedious.

You also will run into new challenges, like localization, that really make your life hell. Just because it's a video game doesn't mean that it doesn't take hard work to make one.

Quote: So, to put it simply, I love spending hours upon hours obsessing over the tiniest details of the art and gameplay mechanics and story, but hate having to actually draw/script/test it all myself. I get bored once the creative process is over. I need minions :P

To put it bluntly... you're screwed. The creative process is a very, very small segment of the game development process, at least as far as writing goes. The majority of your time will be spent fighting all the little fires that crop up (things like technical limitations, budget constraints, matching your work to existing work, localization... starting to see a trend here? [wink]).

Unfortunately, far too many people have this idea that they can just walk in, do "all the creative stuff", and watch someone else make their dream game.

It doesn't work that way, sorry.

Quote: 3) I didn't really say anything about the prospects of being hired by any studio.

In fact, the point of the thread was to discuss my ridiculously optimistic hypothetical idea. It's a thought exercise, in which we pretend that I'm already famous and talented, and am recruiting a team of artists and coders to help me with a project. It's not about me personally, it's about a precedent for something like that happening. i.e. Is there one?

I am not aware of any such precedent, and even if there was one, betting on it as a possible career path for yourself is deeply, deeply foolish. Don't plan your life around long shots.

In any case... I'm curious why you want to discuss something that even you yourself acknowledge is "ridiculously optimistic." If you know this isn't going to happen, what are you looking for? Someone to tell you that it could happen and thereby validate your dream?

Quote: Anyway, like I mentioned before, I'm more interested in how plausible it is, rather than how possible it is currently.

Plausible? Not very, and not likely to become much more so in the future. If anything the business will get more competitive and require better credentials; I don't really see it being likely that things would get more lax and easier to break in using this particular route.

Heh, that wasn't half as blunt or assholish as I was expecting. That's the kind of response I was looking for. Kind of.

Ya'll act like you're used to people coming in here and saying "I haf l33t skillz, how I become millionaire?", and having to gently tell them to stop holding their breath and start working their way up. But that's not what I'm asking. Every single person so far as just come in and told me to stop being arrogant in various round-a-bout ways.

And I keep having to say, forget about me and my ambitions and all the longshots. That isn't what I'm interested in here. (Besides, all of the critical evaluations you've made about me are based on what I've told you about myself. And since even I don't know how I'd handle any given situation, random dudes on a forum certainly don't, which makes any attempt at personal advice moot.)

Although, you made some interesting points, particularly about the non-creative parts of directing a game. One tends not to think of that. But it's really more of a "cross that bridge when I come to it" issue.

But anyway, like I said, forget me. You say the plan isn't plausible. Why, specifically?

Maybe if I phrased the question differently.
Let's say someone owns the rights to make a video game out of the upcoming movie "Kick-Ass", which has been receiving overwhelmingly positive reviews. Now, give it to EA and it'll probably come out as a rushed, crappy, soulless "beat-em-up". So, given that the movie will pretty much guarantee the game will turn a profit (and so there's plenty of funding on hand), what does that person do now? (Let's say they want to be heavily involved in the game's story and design)


I'm just curious.

My opinion: everything is possible. I could become the man that stopped all wars. I just need to write this one good software, become like super rich, buy the biggest army ever and win all the other armies in the world. If theres something missing in my plan, I'll just think of something when I'm there.

That's how ridiculous your dream sounds. Some people still win in lotteries, so it's not impossible, if that's any comfort.

Although I understand this isn't necessarily what you are asking about, you need to reevaluate your plans.

The truth is, people who achieve this level of success in the arts usually do so specifically because they master BOTH the creative and technological sides of their disciplines. Some examples that spring to mind include James Cameron, who directed the two highest grossing (non inflation adjusted) movies of all time, and The Beatles, who are generally accepted to have sold more records than any other artist in chart history. Both Cameron and the Beatles were / are technological innovators just as much as they were / are creative geniuses, not to mention excellent businessmen. Without the science, all music, film, video-games, photography, novels and other art are just different ways of telling a story (take Avatar for example, which has been criticized for its predictable and uninspired plot and yet has grossed over $2.5Bn and created a new depression syndrome, but that's another rant), and without the business, all artists are just wandering minstrels.

Being creatively gifted (assuming you are) is still pretty elite even in the days of the internet, and if you're honestly dedicated and smart enough to forge a career from that gift, then go for it. But if you're going to be a one man army, you'd better learn to fly a jet, operate a radar, coordinate an artillery strike etc. etc. If you can't find passion for the technical aspects, you don't stand a chance.

I'm not saying that you can't do what you say you want to, that would be ridiculous because I've not even seen any of your novel (and I'm hardly qualified to judge it anyway), I'm just saying that if you want to get anywhere in the creative industries, you have to be just as good with, and interested in the technical and business aspects as you are with your writing, so get learning!

I wish you luck though, if you do get your book published you'll have to tell us as I'm sure plenty of people would be interested to hear about it.

Quote: Original post by James Joseph Emerald
Instead of letting EA churn out a series of generic, mediocre tie-in games designed solely to capitalise on the Harry Potter title, Rowling decides to make her own game. The game has an original, canon storyline, devised by Rowling herself, and has revolutionary gameplay designed by a team of highly-motivated indie developers.

I personally resent that since I worked on two of those titles. I know first hand that a lot of effort went into those games by the entire team given the constraints we had, some of which ApochPiQ has already mentioned.