Quote: Original post by djz...

heh....

The fireworks have been really something at David Lam. I would go as far as to say they are at moments even nicer than the symphony of fire... much shorter however! I was at all three sites in the last two hours of events for all three sites downtown last night. David Lam was the busiest even though it's the only outdoor stage. I hear Damien Marley's on 02/24/10 :) Can't think of anything he does off the top of my head but I'm sure it will be pretty busy. Man did it rain all night long last night....

the only thing Sony I will buy is Playstation.... and I no have TV :D

My only experience of vancover was for 2 weeks (though I spent some time at whistler, climbed mt backcomb or wistler looking for bears). I was staying with a mate cause I was going to see sonic youth in seattle.

Anyways I was at the public train station in the toilet, this druggie comes in saying he wants some toilet paper cause he needs a shit "man Ive gotta go", this guard comes in and throws him out. He does the shit outside then picks it up and hurls it into the building :)
That and trying to find a bottleshop for alcohol were my main memories, I would ask ppl on the street + it would be
(scratches chin) Alcohol well Ive seen that on the TV, aye! Let me think, you walk about 15 blocks that way

Also my first memory, arriving at the airport and asked someone behind a counter where I could take a piss.
She looked at me like I said I killed and ate children

Quote: Original post by zedz
Anyways I was at the public train station in the toilet, this druggie comes in saying he wants some toilet paper cause he needs a shit "man Ive gotta go", this guard comes in and throws him out. He does the shit outside then picks it up and hurls it into the building :)

Was this the train station near Main St, by any chance? The rest of the city generally isn't like that.

Quote:
That and trying to find a bottleshop for alcohol were my main memories, I would ask ppl on the street + it would be
(scratches chin) Alcohol well Ive seen that on the TV, aye! Let me think, you walk about 15 blocks that way

Depending on how you were dressed and where you were, they might have thought you were a hobo or druggie.

Quote: Also my first memory, arriving at the airport and asked someone behind a counter where I could take a piss.
She looked at me like I said I killed and ate children

If you used those exact words, I'm not surprised.

My rating has dropped significantly since posting this thread after I had only received positive responses for programming related threads and posts. As someone who respects the GameDev.Net community, can someone perhaps elaborate on exactly how I was unhelpful or unfriendly? If this is not a forum where such ideas can be discussed without backlash I will refrain from becoming involved in such topics.

In Olympic news, 20,000 tickets have been voided for events on Cypress. This comes on the heels of a previous 8,000 cancellations. I wonder, if there would be the basis for a class-action lawsuit against VANOC? Will those who are unable to see the events get any assistance in recouping hotel and transport fees? I am surprised that the media hasn't directly interviewed any of the individuals whose tickets were voided.

In spite of this and other problems so far, Olympic officials counter arguments by British media that this is the "Worst Games Ever" - On a positive note, Colbert is coming to town!. I can't wait to see what kind of a show the Colbert team puts together.

Quote: Original post by djz
As someone who respects the GameDev.Net community, can someone perhaps elaborate on exactly how I was unhelpful or unfriendly?

Basically this: I strongly disagree with pretty much every misguided opinion you presented in your post defending the protests at the weekend. Does this give me the right to come round your house and smash up your shit? It doesn't seem to have occurred to you that the protesters' viewpoints may not be getting the attention you think they deserve because people think they are wrong not because they are ignorant sheep who are blinded by the mainstream media and whose attention must be forcibly grabbed by engaging in property damage and other forms of violent protest.

If you want to change minds about the issues then peaceful protest and debate are legitimate ways to go about it. In the Internet era it has never been easier or cheaper to disseminate non mainstream or dissenting opinions widely without resorting to violence. Violent protest might be justified in a truly repressive state like China where other forms of dissent are heavily restricted but it isn't justified in Canada. Destruction of property just looks like the actions of a bunch of spoiled kids who throw a tantrum because they aren't getting the attention they seek. I hope the protesters who engaged in such activities are prosecuted.

Quote: Original post by mattnewport

Quote: Original post by djz
As someone who respects the GameDev.Net community, can someone perhaps elaborate on exactly how I was unhelpful or unfriendly?

Basically this: I strongly disagree with pretty much every misguided opinion you presented in your post defending the protests at the weekend. Does this give me the right to come round your house and smash up your shit? It doesn't seem to have occurred to you that the protesters' viewpoints may not be getting the attention you think they deserve because people think they are wrong not because they are ignorant sheep who are blinded by the mainstream media and whose attention must be forcibly grabbed by engaging in property damage and other forms of violent protest.

Was every opinion in my post misguided? As a person I constantly try and challenge assumptions I make about myself, and I can't believe that I am that oblivious to truth. Can you find at least one opinion with merit so I might rebuild my worldview around that sole nugget of truth? ;)

In any case, the comparison is silly, since no protester wants to go to your house to smash your shit. In any case, I assume you are in favour of the state having a monopoly on violence and if that is your position; we can agree to disagree.

Me personally, I strongly disagreed with the smashing of the TD Bank's windows, as they were in no way relevant to the cause at hand. HBC, as far as I'm concerned are fair game given their historical record. Not from myself personally, outside from outrage that the "Go Canada" Olympic merchandise isn't even made here, but our indigenous have a very valid beef with those guys, even if it did all happen years ago.

Quote:
If you want to change minds about the issues then peaceful protest and debate are legitimate ways to go about it. In the Internet era it has never been easier or cheaper to disseminate non mainstream or dissenting opinions widely without resorting to violence. Violent protest might be justified in a truly repressive state like China where other forms of dissent are heavily restricted but it isn't justified in Canada.

I believe it is justifiable in Canada so that we do not become a truly repressive state. The draconian security and oppressive by-laws that have been enacted specifically because of the Olympics are disconcerting; I abhor seeing my civil liberties erode.

If people have not been blinded by mainstream media, and truly do accept this debacle, then the message we are sending our government is that it is A-OK to violate our civil-liberties (via warrantless search and seizure of anti-Olympic material, evading the freedom of information act on technicalities) - I suppose I am just incredulous that this is what people really want for our country.

Quote:
Destruction of property just looks like the actions of a bunch of spoiled kids who throw a tantrum because they aren't getting the attention they seek. I hope the protesters who engaged in such activities are prosecuted.

Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on hockey riots? We could be heading for one of those if Canada loses a major game, and I hope all who vilify the political protesters enact the same judgment if such a thing comes to pass.

Quote: Original post by djz
How, when people at home are struggling in poverty, when household debt is the highest in history, can we in support such purveyors of our own misery in good conscience? Hundreds of thousands of Canada hoodies flood the streets of Vancouver and each Made-In-China trinket is an affront to our own struggle. We are fighting for you, we are fighting for Canadians, we are fighting for workers. When "violent" protest against this evil is debased, you are only hurting yourselves as you allow the corporations that enact such destructive policies of profit maximization to continue to monopolize and destroy our country by lining the pockets of the new Aristocracy and taking from working-class.

1. Household debt may be the highest in history, but you can't blame anyone other than the idiots who buy crap they don't need. If you are in debt and have a flat screen TV, then I'm not going to do anything but laugh at you.

2. Why do companies out source to other parts of the world where people are willing/able to do the same work for less? Because they can! Welcome to the world of capitalism. If you don't like that, go find yourself a big red flag comrade.

3. If you don't like everything being made in China, then buy something made in Canada and support Canadian companies!

4. Do you have something against people in another part of the world working to better their lives?

By the way, I found you very unfriendly/unhelpful for supporting actions that are so negative to your own cause.

Quote: Original post by djz
Was every opinion in my post misguided? As a person I constantly try and challenge assumptions I make about myself, and I can't believe that I am that oblivious to truth. Can you find at least one opinion with merit so I might rebuild my worldview around that sole nugget of truth? ;)

Not quite every opinion but at least the following:

Quote: Public sentiment reflects this notion that property destruction is a thoroughly unacceptable method of protest. This is not the case ...

... a common sentiment expressed by virtually all protesters is that the unpaid athletes are being used as a commodity - perverted to serve a corporate purpose that is eroding our nation ...

... corporations responsible for the debacle of greed happening in front of all of our lives ...

If production were kept in Canada, thousands of jobs that we desperately need would have been created, and that alone should be reason enough for every Canadian to head to their local Bay and start trashing away ...

... each Made-In-China trinket is an affront to our own struggle ...

We are fighting for you, we are fighting for Canadians, we are fighting for workers ...

When "violent" protest against this evil is debased, you are only hurting yourselves as you allow the corporations that enact such destructive policies of profit maximization to continue to monopolize and destroy our country by lining the pockets of the new Aristocracy and taking from working-class ...

I somewhat agree that the Olympics have been a massive waste of tax dollars but then I think most uses of tax dollars are a massive waste.

Quote: In any case, I assume you are in favour of the state having a monopoly on violence and if that is your position; we can agree to disagree.

No, I'm a libertarian with anarcho-capitalist sympathies so I'm not in favour of the state having a monopoly on violence. I would generally support HBC's right to defend their property against attack with a proportionate response.

Quote: I believe it is justifiable in Canada so that we do not become a truly repressive state. The draconian security and oppressive by-laws that have been enacted specifically because of the Olympics are disconcerting; I abhor seeing my civil liberties erode.

I'm a big defender of civil liberties but that includes private property rights so smashing private property is an attack on civil liberties in my view.

Quote: Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on hockey riots? We could be heading for one of those if Canada loses a major game, and I hope all who vilify the political protesters enact the same judgment if such a thing comes to pass.

Hockey rioters are worse than political protesters. I don't believe violence is justified for political protests but the protesters at least have a cause they believe in. Sports rioters are just a violent mob. Property owners should be able to employ reasonable force to defend against rioters.

Quote: Original post by Talroth
1. Household debt may be the highest in history, but you can't blame anyone other than the idiots who buy crap they don't need. If you are in debt and have a flat screen TV, then I'm not going to do anything but laugh at you.

I've spent the last three years of my life paying down tens of thousands of dollars of debt for my education. You have to spend money to make money. What happens if you have no money? You go into debt.

If I hadn't lucked out and gotten a decent job in the IT industry with no education in that field, I would not have been able to make headway on my debt. Others have not been so lucky. Friends of mine who studied Homeopathy, Forestry, Electrical Engineering. Half the people I work with have degrees in fields completely unrelated to what they do, and are still paying off student loans well into their thirties.

I agree, those who got into their financial difficulties through superfluous purchases should deal with the consequences; but there are those who are sinking further and further into debt simply because there aren't jobs that they can do and be able to support themselves and their families on. This is symptomatic of a major problem with how things are structured.

Quote:
2. Why do companies out source to other parts of the world where people are willing/able to do the same work for less? Because they can! Welcome to the world of capitalism. If you don't like that, go find yourself a big red flag comrade.

They can because trade is massively deregulated. At some point, the government should step in and say, enough is enough - lets keep those jobs in Canada.

Quote:
3. If you don't like everything being made in China, then buy something made in Canada and support Canadian companies!

My wardrobe is entirely second hand; except for my jacket which is made in Canada. I support Canadian companies whenever possible - in many circumstances it is simply not possible to purchase a Canadian manufactured product. I am an advocate for the 100 Mile Diet, so you're telling me to do something I already do.

Quote:
4. Do you have something against people in another part of the world working to better their lives?

No. The truth is, people in other countries are working to better our lives, not their own. India ships us food, while their own people are starving. What sense does that make?

Quote:
By the way, I found you very unfriendly/unhelpful for supporting actions that are so negative to your own cause.

That doesn't make a lot of sense but hey, I'll roll with that.

Quote: Original post by mattnewport

Quote: Original post by djz
Was every opinion in my post misguided? As a person I constantly try and challenge assumptions I make about myself, and I can't believe that I am that oblivious to truth. Can you find at least one opinion with merit so I might rebuild my worldview around that sole nugget of truth? ;)

Not quite every opinion but at least the following:

Quote: Public sentiment reflects this notion that property destruction is a thoroughly unacceptable method of protest. This is not the case ...

... a common sentiment expressed by virtually all protesters is that the unpaid athletes are being used as a commodity - perverted to serve a corporate purpose that is eroding our nation ...

... corporations responsible for the debacle of greed happening in front of all of our lives ...

If production were kept in Canada, thousands of jobs that we desperately need would have been created, and that alone should be reason enough for every Canadian to head to their local Bay and start trashing away ...

... each Made-In-China trinket is an affront to our own struggle ...

We are fighting for you, we are fighting for Canadians, we are fighting for workers ...

When "violent" protest against this evil is debased, you are only hurting yourselves as you allow the corporations that enact such destructive policies of profit maximization to continue to monopolize and destroy our country by lining the pockets of the new Aristocracy and taking from working-class ...

I somewhat agree that the Olympics have been a massive waste of tax dollars but then I think most uses of tax dollars are a massive waste.

Quote: In any case, I assume you are in favour of the state having a monopoly on violence and if that is your position; we can agree to disagree.

No, I'm a libertarian with anarcho-capitalist sympathies so I'm not in favour of the state having a monopoly on violence. I would generally support HBC's right to defend their property against attack with a proportionate response.

Quote: I believe it is justifiable in Canada so that we do not become a truly repressive state. The draconian security and oppressive by-laws that have been enacted specifically because of the Olympics are disconcerting; I abhor seeing my civil liberties erode.

I'm a big defender of civil liberties but that includes private property rights so smashing private property is an attack on civil liberties in my view.

Quote: Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on hockey riots? We could be heading for one of those if Canada loses a major game, and I hope all who vilify the political protesters enact the same judgment if such a thing comes to pass.

Hockey rioters are worse than political protesters. I don't believe violence is justified for political protests but the protesters at least have a cause they believe in. Sports rioters are just a violent mob. Property owners should be able to employ reasonable force to defend against rioters.

Fair enough. In regards to HBC, do you defend the indigenous people's rights to defend the land HBC illegally stole from them? And the further destruction of native lands for the Olympics, contrary to our own laws that state land cannot be ceded without a treaty?