Hi, I want to hear some other options on crafting. Currently we are designing our crafting system and we don't know which way to go. There are two options: 1. low crafting skills will result in items which are only effective at low character levels. 2. low crafting skills will result in items with low effective at any character level, whereas high skills will result in items which will be highly effective at any level. Example: healing potion (HP) Option 1: With a low alchemy skill you will be able to create lesser HP which will heal 100 hitspoints. For a low level character this will be more than enough, whereas a high level character will not really benefit from it. Option 2: With a low alchemy skill you will be able to create a lesser HP which will heal 5% of your max. hitpoints, whereas a high skill will create a greater HP which will heal about 25% of your max. hitpoints. Regardless of level/class/race etc. the skill will be usable always with the same effect. The first option is quite common (i.e. WoW), but I would prefer the second option. My question, do you have any preferences or experiences ? Will the second option work ? -- Ashaman

Perhaps the broader game machanics play a role: E.g. in a multi-player game where low level PCs can meet partys with high level PCs, option 1 means that the new member's usefulness is very low when looking at the healing example. Hence he PC may be disliked by the party. Option 2 would be more moderate. If, on the other hand, the low level PC meets other low level PCs, then both options would presumably work well.

However, is this just a question of crafting? I mean, the items itself have another functioning. The example of the healing potion shows either an absolute rate of healing (e.g. 100 HPs) or a relative rate (e.g. 25% of max. HPs). For consistency reasons this should be independent on whether an item was crafted or bought or whatever.

Go with both, be abl to create one based on percentage or absolute value.

Going with percentages will come back and haunt you. You may be able to balance them right now, but when you add new content, levels and stuff, everything will break down.

For example, Everquest. They had a Complete Healing spell, which completely healed. Its mana cost was balance initially. As the game matured and better gear appeared, HP values started rising rapidly. This made that spell very powerfull and left other fixed-value healing spells in the dust and made healing classes without it obsolete.

Also, how is a 5% heal potion any useful to someone who has access to a 25% heal potion? And what do you do when you are up to a 95% heal potion? Create a 100%? And then?

A way to make low level items useful to a high level player is to rely on side-effects rather than raw power. For example, a snare bomb. The difference between a low level and high level bomb is the damage, the snare value is constant. This means a high level can use a low level bomb for its snare, but they would be better off using a high level one for additional damage since they share a common cooldown.

As others have eluded to one of the benefits of using flat numbers is that you can keep upping the anty. If you use % there are only so many times you can allow the player to make a better potion before you run out of ways to make it better.

You also want to consider what goes into making a potion like ingredients and re-use timers. A game with short or no re-use timers has a much different dynamic than one with long re-use timers.

Asha'man,

I respect your interest in identifying the best system. To help, might I frame it around a different profession, such as Weapon Smithing.

In your first system, you can imagine a person creating a steak knife, or a basic hammer at lower levels of crafting. This steak knife will be more deadly in the hands of an expert duelist than in the hands of a civilian-to-become-adventurer. But it has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the knife, and everything to do with the skill of the attacker. Either way, a steak knife is going to do X amount of damage when you slash with it (given equal strength & skill), and it's going to do Y amount of damage if you stab with it.

So even a system with fixed damage per item scales up as you level, because adventurers become stronger, faster, and more skillful.

In contrast, if you were to use the second system, then after the low-level craftsman creates two Steak Knives and gives one to a civilian, and one to an epic level duelist, he's going to find to his surprise that the knife does more actual damage by the civilian, because both deal 5% of the enemies health, and the higher level character has more HP. So when the civilian attacks the epic with 100hp it does 20 damage, but when the epic attacks the civilian with 20 hp it only does 4 damage?!

So you can see scaling the weapon damage up based on the enemy HP doesn't seem like a good idea, in which case you ask, well what it if it's a % of the attacker's skill or something. And that works better, but still doesn't provide a valid range, and doesn't take into account how a really good weapon in the hands of someone unskilled could be more effective than someone very skilled using a spoon. The solution: Most people apply a fixed damage range to their weapons, say 11-20 dmg, and then apply modifiers to that based on the ability scores and skill level of the attacker.

Cheers and Good Luck!

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Original post by JWalsh Asha'man, I respect your interest in identifying the best system. To help, might I frame it around a different profession, such as Weapon Smithing. In your first system, you can imagine a person creating a steak knife, or a basic hammer at lower levels of crafting. This steak knife will be more deadly in the hands of an expert duelist than in the hands of a civilian-to-become-adventurer. But it has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the knife, and everything to do with the skill of the attacker. Either way, a steak knife is going to do X amount of damage when you slash with it (given equal strength & skill), and it's going to do Y amount of damage if you stab with it. So even a system with fixed damage per item scales up as you level, because adventurers become stronger, faster, and more skillful. In contrast, if you were to use the second system, then after the low-level craftsman creates two Steak Knives and gives one to a civilian, and one to an epic level duelist, he's going to find to his surprise that the knife does more actual damage by the civilian, because both deal 5% of the enemies health, and the higher level character has more HP. So when the civilian attacks the epic with 100hp it does 20 damage, but when the epic attacks the civilian with 20 hp it only does 4 damage?! So you can see scaling the weapon damage up based on the enemy HP doesn't seem like a good idea, in which case you ask, well what it if it's a % of the attacker's skill or something. And that works better, but still doesn't provide a valid range, and doesn't take into account how a really good weapon in the hands of someone unskilled could be more effective than someone very skilled using a spoon. The solution: Most people apply a fixed damage range to their weapons, say 11-20 dmg, and then apply modifiers to that based on the ability scores and skill level of the attacker. Cheers and Good Luck!

You can use % and weapons too just not like you described.

A rusty dagger could offer a 5% increase to an attack skill while the dagger of ultimate pwnage could offer a 500% increase to an attack skill. Or something along those lines.

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You can use % and weapons too just not like you described. A rusty dagger could offer a 5% increase to an attack skill while the dagger of ultimate pwnage could offer a 500% increase to an attack skill. Or something along those lines.

Please see my last paragraph...

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...well what if it's a % of the attacker's skill or something. And that works better, but still doesn't provide a valid range, and doesn't take into account how a really good weapon in the hands of someone unskilled could be more effective than someone very skilled using a spoon.

What role is crafting supposed to play in your economy and game progression as a whole?

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Original post by JWalsh Quote: You can use % and weapons too just not like you described. A rusty dagger could offer a 5% increase to an attack skill while the dagger of ultimate pwnage could offer a 500% increase to an attack skill. Or something along those lines. Please see my last paragraph... Quote: ...well what if it's a % of the attacker's skill or something. And that works better, but still doesn't provide a valid range, and doesn't take into account how a really good weapon in the hands of someone unskilled could be more effective than someone very skilled using a spoon.

The math can be changed to address that too if you want.

I am sorry I didn't notice you dismissed your own post in your last sentence.