Quote: Original post by Pete Michaud
That's why we have a movement of people who want English to be the "official" language, but who don't really have a reason for their desire. Tahdah!

Or maybe, you know, it'd be nice to be able to communicate with any American without having to learn a hundred languages.

Quote: Original post by Pete Michaud
It's a really common cognitive malfunction to make a decision or hold an opinion emotionally, or as a signal of group membership, then to justify it later by floundering for some underlying logic. And it's not just people being disingenuous--people really believe their justifications.

The whole "Ferners should learn to speak English, or go home" sentiment is common among racists and conservatives. The reason it's become a slogan isn't exactly clear to me except that it's a convenient banner to rally around against the "foreign invasion." The sentiment exists primarily for racist reasons, but also just because of group membership, in group/out group bias. In any case, it's not really a rational position.

So, people grow up hearing, believing, and saying that everyone in America should speak English. They become adults, rationalize their belief, and those who feel strongly enough about it on an emotional level push for it to be law, as an expression of group power, but ostensibly for the rationale they've invented after the fact.

That's why we have a movement of people who want English to be the "official" language, but who don't really have a reason for their desire. Tahdah!

I wouldn't move to Siberia or rural China and expect everybody to speak English. I really dobut that a lot of people would try and cater to me either. Why does it have to be so different here? Having pride in your culture is great but I guess I'm a racist for thinking that some form of universal communcation is a good idea.

Quote: Original post by jtagge75
I wouldn't move to Siberia or rural China and expect everybody to speak English.

Er... you believe that people immigrate to the US and expect everybody to speak their natural language?

Have you ever even met an immigrant?

Wow.

I'm in the opposed camp. I think the Official English movement is driven by nativism, xenophobia and general right wing hysteria. I suspect that the people who promote it failed to learn a second language in school and seek to turn a source of shame into a source of pride.

I think we should have an official language, but not English. Spanish or maybe German, instead. Mostly because I like those languages better.

I support an official language. Not for any reason like discriminating against immigrants. I'm not religious but there's a passage in the bible that talks about Babel. Basically when everyone had the same language people understood one another and people worked together. I have this idea that if all language barriers are broken down, not just in the United States, but all over the world then people will get along and work together better. It doesn't have to be English as the official language. Maybe I'm a little too optimistic though.

Why english? Ok, Cherokee* is spoken by a very small percentage of population, but you can have more than one official language. Both NZ and Ireland, for instance, have English and Maori/Irish as the official languages. Both recognise the practicality of the majority spoken language and the cultural value of the indigenous language.


* Yes, I'm aware there's more than one native American language, it was an example.

Quote: Original post by SticksandStones
I think we should have an official language, but not English. Spanish or maybe German, instead. Mostly because I like those languages better.

I showed one of my friends online this thread and he's from Germany and said: "i dont like german very much... the grammar is a pain... sounds boring too".

I think the best way to figure out an official language is just ask people which language they prefer. Especially asking people that are bilingual. I ask people which language they prefer a lot, and they generally favor English. Two years ago I did a CS project with a group of Taiwanese students and they commented that English is "simpler" than Mandarin; however, only one of them had a fluent grasp of both languages which brings up the idea that it does take a while to learn another language. (As an example one of my professors (he's Chinese) has been in America for 23 years speaking English and still goes to a speech instructor to correctly pronounce words).

The question of what would be the point of an official language is a good one IMHO. Off the top of my head, for a language declared to be official, you would require:

Government documents to be published in that language.
That language must be taught to children in school.
That language must be known by those seeking citizenship.

The official status of a language need not prevent other languages from being used also. If there are multiple official languages it generally seems to be the case that at least one of those languages must apply in all the above scenarios (as opposed to requiring all them simaltaneously).

I'm guardedly pro-English as an official language. Pro- because I think a common language is a good thing. Guarded because I acknowledge that a lot of pro- people are trying to use it to excuse their discrimination. And frankly because I've been in the extremely frustrating situation of being unable to ask a question in a fast-food restaurant because nobody who was on staff knew enough English to be able to answer a question off-script.

There is plenty of hysteria to go around on both sides. The "damn feriners" side is obvious. But the "because you think I should speak English that means you hate all immigrants" crowd is just as bad.

Quote: I'm in the opposed camp. I think the Official English movement is driven by nativism, xenophobia and general right wing hysteria. I suspect that the people who promote it failed to learn a second language in school and seek to turn a source of shame into a source of pride.

got it in one (though u missed it also being driven by retardism)

I believe here in nz, the 3 official languages are english,maori,sign language
Personally Ild love to see more stuff done in maori here (though its slowly becoming more commonplace with each year)