I didn’t have time to read all the responses so this might already be mentioned but Toribash is a strategic fighting game that uses this method. Players have a limited time to set up their next move/attack and only limited frames/AP to do it in. Totally different genre but at least the system works and the games got a relatively small hardcore following.

Also it was successful enough to be ported to the Wii.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds quite a bit like Growlanser's system.

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Original post by JasRonq I'll definitely have to check out Laser Squad Nemesis, right now though I have an implementation question for you guys. Suppose the system ran roughly as I have outlined it, how would I resolve situations where an action mid sequence in the round becomes invalid based on actions that have occurred before it, either by the player or other characters? Examples: Healing or attacking a dead character Using a melee move on a character that has moved away from you Using a ranged attack when the character has moved inside your minimum range Being stunned delaying moves etc. I can imagine a complex conditions based system than comes pretty close to writing your own AI scripts, but I think simplicity is the only way to tackle this system.

You could have an abstract system of planning and then when the action is to be resolved, you work out the concrete details.

For instance, if the AI wanted to do healing on a character, then what you do is plan this as an abstract "Aid another" action. Then, when the action is to be resolved you check if this character can perform the "Aid another" action. This might be healing, or it might be a buff, or is might be some other action that can help another ally.

What you nee to have is a fall back action for each of the "Abstract" actions so that if it is invalidate then you can still perform an action. Yes you could do this for normal actions, but there would be so many of them it would be very complex to implement - that is why you want to use a more abstract action planning system.

On idea for a fall-back action is something that allows them to get an advantage next round/action they get. For instance, this might be that their initiative increases, or the amount of action points they get increases, or some other advantage. You then allow the player to use this and you can get viable reasons not to take a planned action and take advantage of these fall-back actions.

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Original post by JasRonq What if instead of turns being wholly separate where you use up your Action Points (AP) each turn (then the turn goes to the next guy), you select your moves using up your AP and the turn progresses simultaneously with all other characters in combat. I am suggesting doing it this way: A turn is counted 10 seconds long and is divided by your AP so that a character with 10 AP uses up an AP every second of a turn, and a character with 20 AP uses up one every half second. In this way, the AP can be counted down, when enough is reduced for the move you select, the move is completed.

The somewhat artificial 'turn' construct still exists, and as such so does it's attendant end-of-turn event. That event could be individualized by executing an end-of-turn for each unit when they use up their action points, including enemies. There could be a master list of all units in the game, sorted by biggest action points first.

The alternative 'Turnless' approach is to change the unit of time from the longer 'turn' to the shorter 'second', and flip the unit of measure from ActionPoints/Turn -> Turns/ActionPoint --=> Seconds/Action

Grendles use of Attack:
(10 AP/Turn) / (3 AP/Attack)
=(10/1 AP/Turn)* (1/3 Attacks/AP)
=10/3 Attacks/Turn
= 3 1/3 Attacks/Turn
= 10 Attacks per 3 Turns

To invert the unit of time and change from AP/Turn -> Turns/AP -> Seconds/Action
10 attacks per 3 turns
=10/3 Attack/Turn
(invert)-> 3/10 Turns/Attack
(scale)-> 3/10 Seconds/Attack
= 3/10 second/attack
= 3 seconds per 10 attacks

The to-do list gets sorted on seconds, and the players can go for the longest possible attack that still comes in under the enemy's rate of fire.

It's really just a matter of over/under the 1:1 ratio. 10 Attacks per 3 Turns is focused on planning at a sub-turn level, whereas 3 Attacks per 10 Seconds is focused on planning at a multi-turn(second) level.

Are there any Turn-based games where things are measured in seconds? Seems like they all get made as Real-Time. Kind of odd, hey?

[Edited by - AngleWyrm on October 24, 2009 11:28:12 PM]

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Original post by JasRonq Strictly talking about a single player Turn Based Role Playing Game (SP-TB-RPG): I don't play many of these, very few really, so forgive me as I am sure some one has done this at least once. What if instead of turns being wholly separate where you use up your Action Points (AP) each turn (then the turn goes to the next guy), you select your moves using up your AP and the turn progresses simultaneously with all other characters in combat. I am suggesting doing it this way: A turn is counted 10 seconds long and is divided by your AP so that a character with 10 AP uses up an AP every second of a turn, and a character with 20 AP uses up one every half second. In this way, the AP can be counted down, when enough is reduced for the move you select, the move is completed. Example: Grendel has 10 AP Beowulf has 15 AP Beowulf Selects Attack(3 AP) x3 followed by Dismember(4 AP) Grendel Selects Quick Attack(1 AP) x6 followed by Chew Skull(4 AP) 10 Second turn / 15 AP for Beowulf = 2/3rds of a second per AP Grendel has 1 second per AP (10/10) So Beowulf uses Attack once every 2 seconds during his turn (2/3 per AP * 3 AP = 2 second per Attack) Grendel gets off a quick attack every second, twice as fast, even though its a third the AP cost, he is slower by 5 AP. Grendel and Beowulf finish exchanging light blows 6 seconds into this 10 second turn. Grendel Starts his Skull Chew move and Beowulf starts Dismember. Both moves have started 6/10ths into the turn, and both use 4 AP, but Dismember will finish first because Beowulf is faster by 5 AP. His AP are 2/3rds of a second long because he has 15 to pack into 10 seconds, Grendel's AP are 1 second each because he has 10 AP for 10 seconds. Hence, 4 AP from Grendel is 4 seconds, but 4 AP from Beowulf is only 2 & 2/3rds seconds. Beowulf finishes Dismember(4 AP) in 2.66 seconds, ripping Grendel's Arm off before Grendel Manages to Chew Beowulf's head off. So! Guys, what do you think of this as a turn based combat system?

I think I have thought about this kind of system. My would-be RPG has a world where everything is real-time, every actions is counted with Time. So for example, Normal Attack needs 10 Times to complete, and Quick Attack needs 5 instead. Cast Spell needs 10 Times (plus the length of the spell, more powerful spells are clearly longer than weaker ones), while Defending Cast Spell (casting spell while also guarding against physical attacks) eats up 15 Times (plus the length of the spell too).

The difference is, every actions is divided into 3 segments : start-up, active, and recovery. This is pretty similar to fighting games. So say that Normal Attack needs 10 Times total, the Times may be divided into start-up (3 Times), active (when the attack actually hits, 4 Times), and recovery (3 Times). In my system, if the executor of the action gets hit quite hardly while he's executing it, the action may be cancelled immediately. So for example, if the player takes a heavy blow when his Normal Attack has not yet reached it's active segment, the Normal Attack will be stopped instantly before it actually hits anything.