My grandfather's Dell PC recently lost the ability to use both of its optical drives - apparently at the same time. He says he didn't notice any kind of power surge or install anything prior to them going out. I checked them in the Hardware control panel and the report said the drivers were installed fine but the hardware could not be detected. Still, I uninstalled both device drivers, rebooted and XP re-installed them, but the drive status remained the same - undetectable. I checked the BIOS but there was no option for looking at disc drives so I couldn't tell if it was a root hardware problem. I replaced the IDE cable - no luck. Both drives can open and close, so the power cables are fine. My three guesses are: 1 - the mainboard got surged (or something) and the IDE connector for the optical drives no longer works 2 - Windows got corrupted and needs to be reinstalled 3 - some malware or virus? Unfortunately since it's a Dell I can't remove the optical drives to hook them up to my computer to make sure it's not the drives themselves, but I doubt it seeing as they both failed together - what are the odds? Anyways before I tell him to get an external optical drive, can anyone think of anything else that might be going on here?

Quote: Original post by Gaiiden
2 - Windows got corrupted and needs to be reinstalled

Try using a bootable CD on start-up, to see if it can be detected before Windows starts.

If Windows encounters a particular number of I/O errors on a drive it will switch from DMA mode to PIO mode. I find it unlikely that this may be the problem, but one way to force it to reset itself it is to uninstall the driver for the IDE channel (not the drive). (Alternatively, it could be a DMA issue, in which case try setting it to PIO).

It sounds like a tricky one to fix, if Windows can see the drive well enough to reinstall drivers for it once uninstalled, but not well enough to see the drives.

Why is it a problem that the machine is a Dell?

Your guesses all sound reasonable, but here's another one. The nature of PATA is that one malfunctioning device on a channel can screw over the other one. Try connecting each device by itself, either jumpered as master or jumpered as cable-select and attached to the connector on the end of the cable.

And I agree with benryves' confusion. Dell uses COTS drives. They have wacky stuff going on in the front, but they're standard 5.25 drives and will come right off once you take off the front panel. For all its crappy build quality, Dell has a knack for designing cases that are a breeze to maintain. Everything snaps in and out like clockwork.

Have you checked that they work when connected to another PC?

Its also not impossible that it could be the ribbon cable and not the IDE port.

If there are two IDE connectors(the HD SATA or PATA?) you could connect to it and see if a bootable CD works using it. Live Linux CDs are great for testing if a hardware or software issue is presenting though I DO realize you would have to get the optical drive running for it to work. However if it were Windows installation specific a Linux disk would boot and you would have your answer. If not then its probably hardware.

Quote: Original post by Goober King
Its also not impossible that it could be the ribbon cable and not the IDE port.

If there are two IDE connectors(the HD SATA or PATA?) you could connect to it and see if a bootable CD works using it. Live Linux CDs are great for testing if a hardware or software issue is presenting though I DO realize you would have to get the optical drive running for it to work. However if it were Windows installation specific a Linux disk would boot and you would have your answer. If not then its probably hardware.

Yeah that's what I was going to suggest using a live Linux distro and if that sees the drives then you know it's a Windows problem.
What worries me is that they aren't showing up in bios. Then again some boards won't show anything unless you manually go into the bios and autodetect the drives first. Depending on how old this pc sound's like the ide port or cable could've bit the dust. You could try the other ide port since most pc's have 2 at least.
If it's a really old pc this could be normal although quite a coincidence since in my experience optical drives are one of the first parts parts of a pc to die.
If it was me though I'd try the drive in another machine before ruling it out dead for sure as has been suggested.
I know you are probably trying to avoid that since Dell makes it really hard sometimes to take off the front cover to remove the optical but it should be possible.

Quote: Original post by Erik Rufelt
Try using a bootable CD on start-up, to see if it can be detected before Windows starts.

Easy, should have thought of that. Will do.

Quote: Original post by benryves
If Windows encounters a particular number of I/O errors on a drive it will switch from DMA mode to PIO mode. I find it unlikely that this may be the problem, but one way to force it to reset itself it is to uninstall the driver for the IDE channel (not the drive). (Alternatively, it could be a DMA issue, in which case try setting it to PIO).

It sounds like a tricky one to fix, if Windows can see the drive well enough to reinstall drivers for it once uninstalled, but not well enough to see the drives.

Why is it a problem that the machine is a Dell?

I'll take a closer look at the drive settings. And it's a problem being a Dell because I can't see how I can remove the drives. You can only take one panel off the tower, the other side is pop riveted to the case, so I can't even unscrew the drives on both sides. Stupid Dell. For reals?

Quote: Original post by Mr Explody
Have you checked that they work when connected to another PC?

See above...

Quote: Original post by Goober King
Its also not impossible that it could be the ribbon cable and not the IDE port.

If there are two IDE connectors(the HD SATA or PATA?) you could connect to it and see if a bootable CD works using it.

Like I said, I replaced the ribbon cable and still had no luck. And can't I put a Linux distro on a USB?

Quote: Original post by daviangel
You could try the other ide port since most pc's have 2 at least.

No go - the second IDE is there but it services the HDD... although I suppose if I swap them and the computer fails to find the OS... okay that's actually an option.

Will be returning to the grandparents tomorrow to try some of these ideas.

Quote: Original post by Gaiiden
And it's a problem being a Dell because I can't see how I can remove the drives. You can only take one panel off the tower, the other side is pop riveted to the case, so I can't even unscrew the drives on both sides. Stupid Dell. For reals?

You have, I assume, consulted the manual? [smile] My current machine (also a Dell) only lets you access the screws on one side, but that's because the screws aren't screwed into anything other than the drive itself. Pressing a clip allowed you to slide the drives out of the front of the machine. My previous machine, an hp, had a similar arrangement - but this time the drives were screwed into a caddy that could be unclipped and removed from the case to allow you to gain access to the screws.

I'm sorry if you've already tried this, but it just seems highly unlikely that they would rivet shut a case and not let you unscrew a drive.

Quote: Original post by Gaiiden

Quote: Original post by Goober King
Its also not impossible that it could be the ribbon cable and not the IDE port.

If there are two IDE connectors(the HD SATA or PATA?) you could connect to it and see if a bootable CD works using it.

Like I said, I replaced the ribbon cable and still had no luck. And can't I put a Linux distro on a USB?

The only hitch there(I think) is that the system BIOS needs to support booting off of a USB drive plus you need to configure the drive to be bootable. Its safe to assume most systems now support booting off CD's but I didn't want to go assuming USB booting would be supported by the average everyday computer hanging out at one's Grandparents. If it does it should be an option under the boot sequence.

At this point my money is on a toasted port. An alternative there might be to get an IDE card if there is room for such a thing in there. I know they can get real creative with using the space so that might be a no go. Still could be cheaper than buying and external drive and both drives would work after that.