The Bible is written over 2000 years ago. Why do you expect it to tell something about modern technology?

Quote: Original post by Yodaman Jer
I personally believe that God gave us knowledge to develop medicines so that we can cure ourselves. Why else would there be herbs and other medical ingredients?

I may have misunderstood you, but it seems like you are saying that the only explanation as to why some plants have positive effects on the human body when ingested, while others have no effect, and others have negative effects, is that the positive effect ones (which humans have labelled as medical ingredients) have been put there specifically by God so that we may learn how to use them for our benefit?

Do you really believe that? And can you really not think of other explanations?

http://imgur.com/3N3v6.jpg

;)

My church is Charismatic, which means it's believed miracles still occur as reported in the New Testament. Certainly healings are seen as both real and not even that rare. However I don't know anyone who would forsake modern medicine; in fact many peoples' stories begin when they are diagnosed and end when the doctor tells them they are well.

Quote: I may have misunderstood you, but it seems like you are saying that the only explanation as to why some plants have positive effects on the human body when ingested, while others have no effect, and others have negative effects, is that the positive effect ones (which humans have labelled as medical ingredients) have been put there specifically by God so that we may learn how to use them for our benefit?

Do you really believe that? And can you really not think of other explanation?

Essentially what I meant is that it seems very likely that God put them there for our benefit, then granted us the ability to learn and to discover. And yes, I really believe that.

As for "other" explanations, there's only one theory and that's about Evolution, which I personally don't believe in. Everything is just far too precise, from the position of the Earth down to plants and herbs that help cure us, for me to believe that. Please keep in mind that that is my own opinion and I do not wish to cause an argument. I'm just stating my beliefs to make my opinions clearer.

There's a massive flood. A man is trapped on the roof of his house. After a while, a boat comes past and offers to rescue him. The man refuses. "God will save me" he says, and the boat leaves. The waters continue to rise. Later, another boat comes past and offers to rescue him. Again, the man refuses. "God will save me" he says, and the boat leaves, and still the waters rise. Eventually a helicopter arrives and offers to rescue him. At this point, the waters are almost completely covering the house, but once again, the man prefers to wait for divine intervention. The helicopter leaves and the man dies. He gets to heaven and meets god.

"Why didn't you save me, lord?" he asks.

"WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?" replies god (god always speaks in capitals) "I SENT TWO BOATS AND A HELICOPTER!"


There hasn't been one proven, documented instance of divine intervention. If you believe in god, believe that he guided men of medicine to heal your daughter.

Quote: Original post by Yodaman Jer

Quote: I may have misunderstood you, but it seems like you are saying that the only explanation as to why some plants have positive effects on the human body when ingested, while others have no effect, and others have negative effects, is that the positive effect ones (which humans have labelled as medical ingredients) have been put there specifically by God so that we may learn how to use them for our benefit?

Do you really believe that? And can you really not think of other explanation?

Essentially what I meant is that it seems very likely that God put them there for our benefit, then granted us the ability to learn and to discover. And yes, I really believe that.

As for "other" explanations, there's only one theory and that's about Evolution, which I personally don't believe in. Everything is just far too precise, from the position of the Earth down to plants and herbs that help cure us, for me to believe that. Please keep in mind that that is my own opinion and I do not wish to cause an argument. I'm just stating my beliefs to make my opinions clearer.

The human body is a huge pile of chemistry, and plants are chemical as well, so some combinations of chemicals from a plant + the human body happen to have some effects (good, bad or weird), and some others don't.

Quote: Original post by ChaosEngine
There's a massive flood. A man is trapped on the roof of his house. After a while, a boat comes past and offers to rescue him. The man refuses. "God will save me" he says, and the boat leaves. The waters continue to rise. Later, another boat comes past and offers to rescue him. Again, the man refuses. "God will save me" he says, and the boat leaves, and still the waters rise. Eventually a helicopter arrives and offers to rescue him. At this point, the waters are almost completely covering the house, but once again, the man prefers to wait for divine intervention. The helicopter leaves and the man dies. He gets to heaven and meets god.

"Why didn't you save me, lord?" he asks.

"WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?" replies god (god always speaks in capitals) "I SENT TWO BOATS AND A HELICOPTER!"

Exactly. There may be specific cases when a person may believe they should refuse medicine... but those are very few and far between.

Quote: There hasn't been one proven, documented instance of divine intervention. If you believe in god, believe that he guided men of medicine to heal your daughter.

You can't prove a miraculous healing as being divine, because the whole point of divine intervention is it's outside normal physical reality.
There are thousands of cases of people making 'miraculous' recoveries which doctors can't explain but they are filed under 'sometimes these things happen, isn't not unheard of'. Whe they are discussing it with friends and family they will quite possibly describe it as a 'medical miracle'... but you can't prove how it happened because science doesn't pretend to cover miracles [wink]

Quote: Original post by d000hg
but you can't prove how it happened because science doesn't pretend to cover miracles [wink]

Yep, whenever you ask "I wonder if a magic man did it?" you're choosing to leave science/reality behind ;)

Quote: Original post by Yodaman Jer
Please keep in mind that that is my own opinion and I do not wish to cause an argument. I'm just stating my beliefs to make my opinions clearer.
...
As for "other" explanations, there's only one theory and that's about Evolution, which I personally don't believe in.

I don't want to disrespect your beliefs, but for what it's worth: you can "not believe in evolution" just as much as you can "not believe in gravity".

Whether you believe or not, gravity will pull you down and nature will evolve.

Even if a magic man created the entire universe 6 minutes ago, the things in it still gravitate towards large masses and DNA will evolve.

A belief that makes sense might be "while gravity exists, I don't believe it is the force that created the Earth" or, "while evolution exists, I don't believe that humans evolved from lower life forms".

Quote: Everything is just far too precise, from the position of the Earth down to plants and herbs that help cure us, for me to believe that.

That's the beauty of natural chaos =D I think no matter what your beliefs, this a wondrous thought.

Assuming the universe is infinite (e.g. cyclic universes, or a multiverse, etc...) then any possible event (e.g. the creation of all life as we know it, in it's finely balanced state) is mathematically almost certain to occur at some point.
Therefore, in a capital-G godless infinite universe, life as we know it is destined to exist.

Now I don't know what it's like to be in awe of capital-G god, but I can still be in awe of all creation anyway ;)

There are plenty of places in the Bible where it instructs people to pray for the sick. But I can't think of anywhere where it even remotely suggests that they shouldn't also see a doctor.