Quote: Original post by Cambios
Do you think elitism is a major problem for the MMO industry and community?

No, I don't think so. But certainly I think it should be kept more under control. It is simply annoying.
I remember of an **old** mud where a guild set up a volunteering program for helping newcomers. I think it's about a decade I don't play the game anymore yet I remember the training course very positively. Too bad this didn't stop me to leave.
I think there was a very peculiar benefit in joining this initiative, but I don't really remember the details. My best bet is that it was just another, different internet.

Quote: Players who want meaningful character advancement but are uninterested in pressing the “1″ button for 20 hours a week in repetitive raid dungeons are callously told to “l2play.”

But, But, But..This is the game.

I don't understand why people do this. If your video game requires playing video games is a free time activity. If it doesn't live up to whatever the player wants, then don't complain to the other players, complain to the admins and leave for a game that does live up to what you want.

I know people complain that all the chess pieces are confusing because they move different ways and refuse to spend the time to learn how to. BUT they don't claim chess players who know their stuff are elitist or do they still want to play with people who took the time to learn it. Likewise it's not elitist for people who know their chess to want to play with people who either are trying to learn their game or know how to play.

I mean, the entire article is summed up here.

Quote: Considering how little skill is involved in most modern MMOs anyway, the sense of superiority these 3l33t jerks feel is probably misplaced anyway.

It takes time to play the game, and if people don't want to take the time to view video X, Y, Z and read tutorial B, then an "elitist" shouldn't take the time to care about them either. The "elistist" did, that's why he's the elitist, because he took the time to learn about the game so he can play the game.

Quote: A hobby that cannot attract new members eventually withers and dies. The current culture of noob hostility is frequent comic fodder, but there is a very serious underlying problem.

Since the dawn of online multiplayer games the playerbase could be divided into skilled/elitist and newbie/noob players. This probably won't change any time soon, as long as game developers throw people randomly into one single pot.

I've been called a noob in Left4Dead and called a noob in UT99. You can't change the behavior of some people who think of themselves to be at the top of the evolution ladder, forget it, won't happen as long as "skill" & "map-knowledge" affects the outcome of a game.

In my opinion this is prevalent in online fps moreso than in mmorpg's, because the tendency to play public matches with random players in shooters is more likely. Playing short games with others you'll probably never see again is the worst thing imaginable. Make one mistake and somebody throws "noob", "epic fail" or "omfg" at you and maybe they even vote kick you out of the server.

I believe though, that game developers could influence this by simply focusing more on the community aspect of their games. As soon as you "get to know" other players, the general atmosphere changes. A flourishing community of clans and "Server Communities" should be the goal where every player has a unique recognizable identity.

Some of the best moments of my life were spent on the jolt Bombing Run server in UT2003. A small community of players (somewhere around 100 people) frequently visiting the same server over a timeframe of 2-3 years. It's addictive to recognize most of the players by their nickname/clan. Some of them you get to know on a personal level by using IRC chat. This leads to very friendly interactions in-game regardless what skill level you have.

I never had this kind of experience again. I mostly play Valve games lately, but L4D/TF2 hit's the rock bottom regarding community imo, because they mostly force you to play with complete strangers on random servers. I've seen some of the worst and most irritating things happening there to new players. It's really sad.

Quote: Original post by ZuBsPacE

I believe though, that game developers could influence this by simply focusing more on the community aspect of their games. As soon as you "get to know" other players, the general atmosphere changes. A flourishing community of clans and "Server Communities" should be the goal where every player has a unique recognizable identity.

I agree. Game design that is more inclusive would be a very good thing. In DAoC, for example, there was less of this because you needed people from your realm out on the battlefield. Even if they were not 3l33t players, they still helped.

But in the personal gear grind games like WoW, you get your guild mates, you raid, and everyone else be damned. That promotes a lot of "l2play n00b" crap.

Quote: Original post by geo2004

I am in a relatively small guild that does 5-mans and the occasional 10 or (PuG/merged with other guild)25 man (although I rarely do either), and I have the gear for 10 mans, and the easier 25 mans. Why? because I've done my research. I know what heroics to run to get the upgrades I need. I spend time on the forums reading about my class, what is a good spec, good rotation, what the hit cap is, what stats are most important, etc.

I always do the same in games I play, but what about people who want to just PLAY THE GAME?

Do we really want this industry to evolve to a point where scouring external, third party web sites is a de facto requirement for enjoying any level of success in a game?

I think not.

I know I'm going to come off as the elitist gamer that I used to be but. Reading up on any hobby is the norm. Especially if you want to be really good at it. And that in my perspective is what gaming is, a hobby.

I also play Ultimate and guess what? I read up on everything I can about throwing techniques and then I practice them. Why? So that I can be better at it. There will always be someone out there who's done it first or can do it better than you. Or even just people out there who will discuss their own points of view. That's what makes you better.

In reference to WoW, yes there are people out there that want you to have read up on things. Why? So that they can play the game too. To them playing the game doesn't involve constantly restarting the same encounter countless times due to mistakes that are easily corrected. Anyone, and I mean anyone can raid as long as they put the reading in. It really isn't that hard a game...

Another possible result from MMO Elitism:

Right now, the 90% more casual population subsidizes the 10% (or less) hardcore/raider population on games like WoW.

Is that sustainable in the long run? I think not. Eventually that 90% will think "screw you hardcore guys that are jerks to us."

When that sentiment reaches critical mass, the new, big budget, high production value MMOs will be designed for that 90%, not the 10% hardcore/3l33t.

The 3l33t raider types will have games designed for them that are lower budget, smaller development team, lower production value games. Is that what they want? I think not.

Quote: Original post by Cambios
Is that sustainable in the long run? I think not. Eventually that 90% will think "screw you hardcore guys that are jerks to us."

By that logic, there's no future in building houses, since once somebody owns a house, they're not going to buy another. Eventually, you're going to run out of people to sell houses to! It's just not going to happen. If a casual player quits an MMO, there's 6 billion other people in the world ready to take his place.

Quote: Original post by Cambios
The 3l33t raider types will have games designed for them that are lower budget, smaller development team, lower production value games. Is that what they want? I think not.

Why do you think that's not what they want? After all, a smaller game that focuses just on the hard-core aspect of raiding/etc would be exactly what a hardcore player wants. Especially if they don't have to "suffer" hordes of "noobs". Since when does "lower budget, smaller development team, lower production value" = "worse"?

I don't think it's going to turn casual players away from WoW specifically, since the casual players outnumber the hardcore ones by quite a margin. A casual player could go for months without ever meeting a "leet" hardcore player that acts like a jerk towards him, but he's not going to equate that player's actions with the rest of the player base because that hard core player is the minority.

During my week of WoW I noticed nothing of the kind. High and low level characters are segregated by area difficulty so I mostly mingled with players not much better or stronger than me.

I think the crux of the position on hardcore players versus casual (and the perspective of there being snot nosed elite players) is that there is content that "casual" players want to be able to access. However they don't want to put the time in. And, really the time doesn't need to be all at once like it used to have to be.

The issue that "hardcore" raid groups don't want "casuals" is due to the attitude from the "casual" players that they deserve to be dragged along (and I do mean dragged as the vast majority of "casual" players tend to make the small mistakes that cause a 2 hour run to be an 8 hour run). No one "deserves" anything in this world. You got to work at it.

And I think most "casual" stick around because there's enjoyment still to be had out there. Just in different ways. Plus some even hope that they'll be the "elite" at some point or other...