I and a friend of mine have an idea that in our uneducated view has relatively good potential of being a fantastic service to be provided on mobile devices. The thing is that in our view it should already be included with phones and such when they leave the factory. We have the know-how to implement this, but we have no contacts (or experience for that matter) in the industry on how to do something with it. Marketing it would, hence, be a wrong word - what we'd like to do is sell this service to either the manufacturer or (which is more likely) to distributors/resellers or (which is even more likely) to operators (as it includes additional hardware and software that needs to be maintained by a third party). Or - in reality to both the manufacturers and the operators. That is, ideally the software would be included in the core package on mobile devices. However, whether it is actively supported or not, would be determined by the operator (something like, but not quite like P2P and such stuff). And now the question :D - how would one go about approaching the industry without having a patent on the software or the idea? Is there any way of approaching, say Nokia, and saying: "look, we have this awesome service that we'd like people to have access to and we'd like you to include this with your core software package" and not being paranoid that their reaction would be "sure, just show it to us (and we'll say it's good, but not that good and when you're gone we'll simply implement it ourselves)"? Assuming that we didn't ask any money for this initial integration and provided the binaries with the assumption that the service, when used, would later generate revenue (I'd still prefer to also sell the implementation to the manufacturer for a nominal upfront fee), are there steps one can take to protect oneself? Or am I being too paranoid to start with? :)

I can pretty much guarantee that Nokia's response will not be"sure, just show it to us (and we'll say it's good, but not that good and when you're gone we'll simply implement it ourselves)"?
They will either say "no" or they won't even bother to respond because your proposal is simply not presented in a professional manner which makes any sense to them.

Quote: Original post by irreversible
I and a friend of mine have an idea that in our uneducated view has relatively good potential .....

Companies like Nokia won't get out of bed unless they have undertaken serious market research to show it is a good idea. Your uneducated view is (given that it is based on no information or experience) worthless and they wouldn't even respond to such a proposal. You would need a full business proposal which detailed how much money they would make and it would need to be backed up by serious market research.

Quote: ...what we'd like to do is sell this service ....

You have nothing to sell. You would need to develop working prototypes of the service and secure patents before you would have anything that companies would pay money for.

Quote: That is, ideally the software would be included in the core package on mobile devices. However, whether it is actively supported or not, would be determined by the operator (something like, but not quite like P2P and such stuff).

At this point the chances of success reduce dramatically. Not only do you now need to convince a multi-national mobile phone company to spend million of dollars implementing new features into their phones but you also have to then convince the operators that it is worth supporting. Unless you have proven experience in the mobile industry, the above prototype and patents and a solid business proposal they simply won't entertain a discussion.

Quote: how would one go about approaching the industry without having a patent on the software or the idea?

You wouldn't. Unless you had patents and the other stuff mentioned above they would think you were either a comedian or an idiot.

Quote: Is there any way of approaching, say Nokia, ..... Assuming that we didn't ask any money for this initial integration...

The fact that you may not charge doesn't mean there isn't a very very large cost involved in what you propose. Nothing gets implemented on a phone without extensive research, engineering and testing - all of which costs a lot.

Conclusion
If you want to do something on mobiles develop an app that you can make and sell yourself. Trying to launch an idea that needs millions of dollars of support from a whole bunch of multi-national companies is a non-starter unless you have proven experience and can demonstrate (in the business language they understand) how much it will cost them and how they will make that money back. None of which you can start to do until you have secured your idea with patents.

The only way to proceed would be to try and raise investment but even for that you are going to need some sort of working prototype and a solid business plan which includes all sorts of information (the cost to Nokia etc of this system) that you don't have access to.

> Nokia's response will not be"sure, just show it to us {..}

Nokia's response will be to point to OP towards their excellent 3rd party developper program. The OP will have to pay for SDKs and tools along with providing marketing support for their product, and be expected to show up at a set number of Nokia-sponsored conferences at their own expenses (pay for booth space, travel, lodging, etc). If the OP's company survives through that _AND_ manages to attact a few prohiminent telco customers, _THEN_, MAYBE, they will become more serious about promoting the OP more proactively.

> and we'd like you to include this with your core software package
> {...}
> as it includes additional hardware and software that needs to be
> maintained by a third party

There is no way an OEM will open up their OS and hardware platform to an unproven newcomer. Period. You just can't imagine the amount of work, money and resources it takes to certify a device for hordes of telcos - each of which have their own peculiar certification and branding requirements. Throwing unproven code and hardware into something as basic would be akin to throwing a wrench into their profit machine. That's NOT going to happen. Sorry.

Why does the software have to be part of the core instead of just being a downloadable app? Can't the hardware be fitted onto an MMC card or even a pluggable through the USB or be accessible as a standalone Bluetooth device?

-cb

Quote: Original post by irreversible
The thing is that in our view it should already be included with phones and such when they leave the factory.

May I ask why this is a requirement? Can't you distribute it as an application through Ovi/AppStore/etc.?

Thanks for the reality check, guys! :D

Everything else aside - this service is in essence akin to SMS (it's not like SMS, but its functionality and usefulness is kind of similar). As such it would make an awful lot of sense to have this service pre-packaged. There is nothing to keep this from being distributed externally, though - it would simply make a lot more sense to have it integrated at an earlier stage.

Note that neither a single manufacturer, nor an operator could maintain this service due to its scope (which is global), which is why a third party would most likely be required.

Write a business plan for how much it would cost to start up and run your company, how it would make money, and a projection for when the plan would start making a profit.

> this service is in essence akin to SMS

You mean like Google Talk or BeejiveIM? They're downloable apps. No need to hack the OS and no need for extra hardware.

Also a bit of warning about the mobile business. Rule #1: the telcos own the world. Abide by their rules. Rule #2: trying to make something that cuts a telco's profit is a big no-no. Read rule #1 if in doubt. Rule #3: telcos are slow-moving dinosaurs. Even if you have the most fantastic idea in the world, it will take eons before they give it any thought(*). That's because of rule #1.

-cb

(*) Just to give you a real-world example, consider this: Qualcomm introduced baseband chipsets a few years ago featuring hardware 3D technology. And Qualcomm owns the BREW platform. You'd think that telcos would be jumping en masse onto the opportunity to make sexy 3D UIs or promote true 3D games, right? Wrong. Not all telcos and OEMS even bothered to turn on that feature. And you'd think that a large corporation like Qualcomm could twist the telcos' arms. Think again. It took Apple to change all that, nothing less.

Quote: Original post by irreversible
As such it would make an awful lot of sense to have this service pre-packaged.

I would talk to the operators rather than the hardware manufacturers. They primarily decide which services will be available on their phones. Unless it's something that needs to be implemented in the hardware itself. In any case, I think you would really need to establish yourself as a serious company with a proper strategy just to get past the receptionist.

Quote: Original post by irreversible
Note that neither a single manufacturer, nor an operator could maintain this service due to its scope (which is global), which is why a third party would most likely be required.

I'm not trying to argue with you, but operators already work on a massive scale. I can see how they would 'outsource' the service to an affiliate company for financial or legal reasons, or just because they don't consider it to be a part of their core business, but I find it hard to imagine its scale would a problem.

cbenoi1 - it's not like that. SMS is in my understanding by far the most popular service out there; what I was hinting at was the fact that, if implemented correctly, this service could have massive applications, rivaling (well, not rivaling, but at least complementing) the popularity of SMS. Its main drawback would be the fact that it'd take time to "sink in" just as SMS did.

Establishing ourselves as a company and working from ground up is not really an option in this case - one reason is that neither of us really know much or take too much interest in the telecom industry - and getting associated like this (for a single idea) would mean a change of career; another reason is time (and hence impatience). We just think we've really got something idea-wise and we'd like to do something with it - not forget about it or simply give it away. We have the means and the brains to create a prototype package.

I know ideas come last and numbers first in business and even though I haven't given this too much thought, it seems to me that the financial viability of this idea could easily be guaranteed with some small modifications to the (so far non-existent) business plan/method of application.

Apart from the implementation itself the main problem is getting the product "out there". Which is why I started this thread :). I know I'm sounding daft (and that's what I am), but I really can't think of a better place to ask around.

PS - I failed to mention that this service does not require any h/w implementation - it really is just a software service. However, its applicability and hence potential popularity stems from its ease of use, which would be far greater if the service were to be part of the core software on phones and not a separate application you'd have to boot up manually.

Tom Sloper - can you suggest any sources to sift through to get an idea what scope to encompass and how to gauge the potential popularity? There should, after all, be tons of documented cases. I've never actually created a business plan, especially one involving the telecom industry.

WanMaster - based on what has been said in this thread so far, that seems to be the more logical approach :D

Since you are in the UK, I suggest you attend one of the Osney Media show. (http://www.osneymedia.co.uk/page.asp?cpid=255). Pricey, but well worth the money and you will meet only those who are interested in seeing new things in this wacky industry. While attending, get a hold of Kamar Shah of Nokia or Jani Karlsson of Qualcomm and bring a tape recorder. Each word that comes out of those guys is pure gold although their attention span is in high demand in those shows. You may want to talk to Oscar Clark of Nvidia; he's a former O3 content guy and his office is in the UK. He may be available for a quick chat outside conference schedules.

Hope this helps.

-cb