I haven't been involved in the program, but I know a lot of people who have, and I've talked to André about it, so I can give you some information.

Most of the games being developed through the Xtreme Partners program are lower-end, and as such, are being released as valueware through publishers like E-games. Of course, I have NO idea how much money can be made through doing that, but I'm guessing you can't get rich from it (although I know people who make a living from valueware).

I imagine that if you were able to produce a game comparable to top-of-the-line products, it could be released normally through a big publisher.

One thing you consider though is that you are only getting half of what Xtreme Games can squeeze out of the publisher, which is probably going to be somewhere in the 15-30% range, and not much more than you could get on your own. The advantage, though, is that you can get a lot of help, in almost any form you can imagine, and you don't have to go to through the work of finding a publisher. So it's definitely worth looking into.

I am beginning to work with Andre's company right now, and he is definitely worth it for the indie developer.

If you can get out a game (which in itself is a trick), then he will get it published...and yet he gives you the 50%.

For a typical valuegame CD, he claims you might make a couple grand in a year...so,no you aren't making killer money, but it's one more title under your belt. And since all of the game developers out there want that industry experience, this is a good place to start.

PLUS, if you have a game that is really good and warrants it's own box, then you can use him as your' agent of sorts.

He has the business experience, and can easily save you from getting screwed by a publisher.

It's a double edged sword thing, but worth it for me.

Mike Wuetherick
Flare Games

The problem I find with Xtreme Games is
that they are acting essentially as an
agent. They claim they will publish your
game and give you 50%, but they really just
negotiate with other companies to do the
publishing and then take 50% of whatever
they can get. Which is the very definition
of an agent.
Now for a simple game that is just going
to be put on a bundled CD, the amount of
money that the game will get will be quite
small and maybe you can think you can
justify giving a 50% cut to Xtreme Games,
but look at it this way: LaMothe puts about
30 games on a CD bundle of games. He
promises the contributers that they will
probably make a couple thousand dollars,
which means he walks away with $60K for
not a whole lot of work. As far as I can
tell these bundles seem to be the bulk of
what Xtreme Games does. It seems that he
views these bundles as an additional revenue
stream from his books; he hopes that if
any of his readers create a little game,
then he can make a couple of grand from it.
If you have hopes that Xtreme Games will negotiate an actual boxed or jewel box deal,
then a 50% agent fee is outrageous. I
contacted a few people who have dealings
with Xtreme Games and they seemed to think
they were getting ripped off, but were
willing to put up with it because they
figured it was the price they had to pay to
get a foot in the industry's door.
The bottom line is if you have a simple
game and you just want to make a couple of
thousand by having it put on a bundle, then
Xtreme Games is one of your few options.
Actually, it's probably your only option
because the amount of work that would go
into trying to angle your way onto some
other bundle would be more than what you'd
get back in return. If you have a game that
is more substantial than something cooked
up with support of one of LaMothe's books,
then try selling the game yourself before
giving it to Xtreme. It seems that one of
the main publishers Xtreme deals with is
eGames, which has a fairly easy method for
the submission of independents' work. Try
approaching them yourself, before letting
Xtreme take 50%.

Personally, I do all my publisher negotiations by myself, which is a path anyone can take, and yes, if you already have your game finished, XGames could be working just as an agent. Agents normally take 10%, not 50%, BUT the qualifying factor is that agents wont touch small games basically at all.

There isnt enough profit, and its not high enough profile for most of them. The profit an agent would get (10K-150K depending on the game budget) is worth them doing their thing. For a budget game, its probably not. If you can only make $3K in a year from being in a good selling combo pack, then $1.5K for an agent who put some time and got your game into the stores is not all that much.

At this low amount of money, its not the percentage that matters, its the money, because 50% of $1 is .50s, and you probably pass more than that on the ground on your way to work in loose pennies. (The point here being that small amounts dont have the same % weight that large amounts do)

Also, this leaves you to be able to go on creating your next game, instead of looking for publishers.

If the deal is significantly worth it, such as youll be getting enough money to make 50% for the work a big deal, then do the footwork yourself, but dealing with publishers isnt easy. Expect it to take at least 3 months of back and forth negotiations.

I talked with Andre Lamoth (runs XGames3d) a bit after the XGDC and I totally believe in his commitment to helping people out and building a community. So I think those whose needs fit into what he provides would definitely be well off working with him.

When you have designs for different kinds of games, you can always start doing it yourself, but it has certainly helped a lot of people who may not have otherwise gotten published to do so.

-Geoff

How many publishers are going to give you art assets, sound assets, give you ideas that are actually cool and help you find the bugs in your code ?

Keeb

The thing to think here is "connections". If you personally know people who can get your product into the channel, you have the information and contacts to do your pressing, product packaging, and distribution, then for sure you don't need someone else acting for you. Of course, you're also likely already established!

For a first title the last thing you need to be concerning yourself with is all the marketing and management overhead involved in full-on product marketing and fulfillment. You're going to pay someone, somewhere, to get your product out and (IMNSHO) it's better that it be someone who specializes in getting small first-time product out the door than a ton of lawyers, middlemen, repackages, shippers, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

Having said that, I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed. I know the route but I'm pretty sure I don't have the time and/or personal contacts to pull it off! Maybe after the first couple of smaller efforts when I have a track record I can show off...

One should also keep in mind that you keep 50% of the money *YOUR* game made. So then the order in which your royalties dwindle down would be.

Retail Store buys a CD for $2.
That $2 is divided by the number of games on the CD.
You get half of what is left.

so the numbers would be -

$2
/13 //average number of game
/2
= 0.07

You make 7 cents off each cd, which I guess is better then nothing.

[This message has been edited by Gromit (edited November 04, 1999).]

Andre' is currently working on Direct Distribution deals which will eliminate that "agent" status that Xtreme Games currently has to play.

Keep in mind that these partnership deals have not been in effect for that long. In fact, a little over 1 year ago, when I first signed up, there was less than 30 partners in the program. We have grown A LOT since then. The arm of Xtreme Games is currently a lot longer than when I first signed up. I definitely foresee that arm getting much longer in the not too distant future.

Just something to keep in mind.

- Chris

Like Bit said, Extreme games reach is growing.
The more people that use the services from this point on, the longer that reach goes. Not to mention, the hand grip is strengthing.
Help make that hand grip stonger.

Andre is one of the good guys!

Well, you have to respect Andre for his passion. The goal of most publishers and agents is to make tons and tons of money, they couldn't care less about you and your game company. Andre is willing to put a time and resource commitment into a lot of individuals with the same passion, knowing full well that it's likely the majority of the partners will never actually end up with a sellable product. If that isn't enough to convince you, look at the order of magnitude by which the cost of his conference undercuts others of that type...

-fel