Quote: Original post by Dex Jackson

Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Wikipedia informs me:

Quote: Since fried chicken could keep for several days, longer than other preparations, and traveled well in hot weather before refrigeration was commonplace, it gained further favor in the periods of American history when segregation closed off most restaurants to the black population.

It's a lot simpler than that. A LOT SIMPLER. You wanna know what it is?

My understanding from talking to american friends is that in some areas.... they really do eat a lot of fried chicken. But that in those same areas, the white people do too (hint: deep south).

I like that notion that the stereotype applying only to blacks originated in segregation days, due to deep fried foods ease of preparation and storage. Sounds reasonable, and it wouldn't be the first stereotype I've encountered that had a hint of truth to it.

Quote: Original post by slayemin
A: What would you do if you saw a Black man or Chinese man dropping a bag on the bus.
B: Drugs and DVDs, respectively.

Hahahah... that just made my day.

I've never been creeped out by bags left on a bus, but I only use the university transit system, and it's not uncommon for somebody to leave a backpack or something on the bus. In hindsight, it seems like a pretty good target for a bomb, considering bags are left on the bus all the time...

I've lived in the 'deep south' for many years now and haven't heard the race card being played.. seriously anyways. Friends will joke about it and whatnot...

Quote: Original post by Promit
Look, it's simple. Most people are selfish assholes and will play any card they can get a hold of. The race card's a convenient one for a lot of people, particularly in the US.

The race card is frequently used outside of the United States. But I guess since most of the outside world is far more discriminatory in general, it won't get you as far.

I think there are two different subjects being raised here: racism and the "race card" (accusing people of racism in order to realize some benefit.) Racial discrimination is impossible to eliminate because collective identity and tribalism are part of our biological nature. Playing the race card is typically done to pass the blame to others, to avoid serious introspection, and to curry favors by attempting to shame people.

At some point, people prone to playing the race card will either reach a saturation limit to the amount of improvement in their lives they can derive from it (ie., at some point there will be no more "awareness" or "empathy" to extract), reverse the course of progress in race relations (because you can't win someone's acceptance if they feel you aren't willing to like them), or both.

[Edited by - trzy on May 8, 2009 12:59:22 PM]

Quote: Original post by Dex Jackson

Quote: Original post by Zahlman

Yeah, what's up with that fried chicken stereotype, anyway? Where does that come from?

One question to Zahlman and Zahlman only: Are you Black?

I ask that to you because if you are, then hopefully you know the answer unless it doesn't cross your mind. I know from being half-Black why, otherwise don't worry yourself about the answer. (Don't mean it in a discriminating way, but that's really the only to ask without mucking about. Sorry if the question's real personal to you and all that)

No, I'm very, very white. I live in a very multicultural city, yet I've seen far more stereotypical caricatures of black people eating fried chicken (thank you 4chan) than actual black people eating fried chicken.

If I were posting because I were black and felt actually offended by the stereotype, I'd... well, I'd probably let Oluseyi do the honours. ;)

Quote: I know this again from being half-White - and when I say this, at least from my experience and perspective - that being White can generally, for quite a lot of people, particularly - and unfortunately stereotypically - those from a lower or working class background somewhere in South, South-East or East London, really put the asshole in you.

Gangsters are just gangsters. They're embracing a culture (which has been largely media-created to sell hip-hop music).

I note that you're in the UK, BTW. You should note that your ideas about race and racism are also coloured (pun intended) by class warfare, which is much less of an issue elsewhere.

Quote: Original post by curtmax_0

Quote: Original post by slayemin
A: What would you do if you saw a Black man or Chinese man dropping a bag on the bus.
B: Drugs and DVDs, respectively.

Hahahah... that just made my day.

Hmm, let's think about that, BTW.

Quote:
A: What would you do if you saw a Black man or Chinese man dropping a bag on the bus.
B: Drugs and [play?] DVDs, respectively.<br><!–QUOTE–></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE><!–/QUOTE–><!–ENDQUOTE–><br><br>LOL.<br><br><!–QUOTE–><BLOCKQUOTE><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><table border=0 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width="95%"><tr><td class=quote><!–/QUOTE–><!–STARTQUOTE–><i>Original post by Hodgman</i><br>I mean, you may as well say that Koreans shouldn't run Japanese restaurants, or Vietnamese shouldn't run French-bread shops, or call 2nd generation Asian immigrants "<a href="http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=56625132">bananas</a>"…<!–QUOTE–></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE><!–/QUOTE–><!–ENDQUOTE–><br><br>Q. What do Toronto's Irish pubs and Middle Eastern take-out places have in common?<br>A. You're very likely to be served the food by a Korean (usually 2nd generation, at a guess).<br><br>:)<br><br>Of course people are entitled to prepare the cuisine of other cultures. But they generally don't get it right. A lot of places in Toronto, however, don't try for authenticity, but instead for fusion. Korean/Japanese is a common combination around here*, and it's incredibly awesome. When the doctor lets me eat wheat again, I'm gonna get myself a bowl of galbi udon (even the <b>name</b> is fused) and cry a tear of joy.<br><br>* I'm guessing because there used to be a lot more Koreans than Japanese around, so that the former supplied for "White" demand for the latter cuisine - ask yourself when was the last time a white coworker suggested sushi or dim sum for a company lunch/dinner, versus the last time a white coworker suggested bi bim bap. Actually, though, that might have more to do with the lack of an iconic "finger food" in the Korean cuisine. But then, why not gyoza from the Japanese menu? Is there something "macho" about eating raw fish?

Quote: Original post by ZahlmanIs there something "macho" about eating raw fish?

I'd say there isn't. In fact, I think the raw stuff is better than the cooked stuff. >.>

Quote: Original post by trzy
Racial discrimination is impossible to eliminate because collective identity and tribalism are part of our biological nature.

I disagree. In fact, I think this statement is a contradiction. I agree that the social nature of the human condition has biological components, but the formation of collective identity and the resulting tribalism isn't biological, it's cultural. Biology forces human beings to bind together for survival, it does not bind particular human beings to particular languages and worldviews. Collective identity, as an aggregate identity, is inherently pliable. Culture changes over time, both in content and reach. What constitutes "us" and what constitutes "them" does not remain constant. From this it follows that racial discrimination is possible to eliminate. Attributing racial discrimination to biology is merely a way of saying that nothing can be done about it so there's no point in trying. That's a lazy justification for perpetuating racial discrimination.

Someone planning on leaving a bomb on a bus is not going to be wearing clothes likely to get people suspicious about him. The guy wearing traditional arab clothing that forgets a bag behind on a bus is quite safe.

The drunken redneck with a trenchcoat and a backpack, I'm not so sure.

Quote: Original post by LessBread
I disagree. In fact, I think this statement is a contradiction. I agree that the social nature of the human condition has biological components, but the formation of collective identity and the resulting tribalism isn't biological, it's cultural. Biology forces human beings to bind together for survival, it does not bind particular human beings to particular languages and worldviews. Collective identity, as an aggregate identity, is inherently pliable. Culture changes over time, both in content and reach. What constitutes "us" and what constitutes "them" does not remain constant. From this it follows that racial discrimination is possible to eliminate. Attributing racial discrimination to biology is merely a way of saying that nothing can be done about it so there's no point in trying. That's a lazy justification for perpetuating racial discrimination.

Very much agreed; this is further backed up by the casual observation that those who are brought up in a racist enviroment (parents for example) tend to go down that route themselves.

I was lucky, in that while I predominately grew up in a white dominated area of my home town I never had any negative influences about skin colour/race around me from my family. The practical upshot being I couldn't care what your background is in life, as long as you treat me with respect I'll do the same to you.

The sooner the human race gets over this colour and country BS and realises that we are all one race the better imo; just a shame I'll probably never live to see that...

/me serves up another bowl of chicken tikka masala for phantom. ;)

Quote: Original post by LessBread
I disagree. In fact, I think this statement is a contradiction. I agree that the social nature of the human condition has biological components, but the formation of collective identity and the resulting tribalism isn't biological, it's cultural.

Kind of. But there are a lot of complicated processes at play here. For all practical purposes, it's impossible to familiarize each person on the planet with every other cultural and ethnic group, therefore tribal identities based on ethnicity will naturally appear. Even in multiracial societies, the very concept of heritage makes people acutely aware of the fact that their neighbors are not descended from the same population. Blood is thicker than abstract concepts. There will always be people who find comfort in their ethnic identity, if only for the reason that they have accomplished nothing worthwhile in their lives on which to base their pride.

Tending to have a reverence for one's ancestors and one's heritage could very well be the influenced by biological factors.

Quote:
Collective identity, as an aggregate identity, is inherently pliable. Culture changes over time, both in content and reach. What constitutes "us" and what constitutes "them" does not remain constant.

It doesn't, but what remains constant is that there is always an "us" and "them." Educating everyone to become blind to differences in phenotypes between populations is unfeasible. Consider how rapidly people form tribal identities, even the most seemingly harmless of which can have serious consequences. Sports, for example. I think that it's impossible to prevent the formation of identities based on physical appearance. In fact, I don't even think that's really the root of the problem we need to be addressing:

Quote: From this it follows that racial discrimination is possible to eliminate. Attributing racial discrimination to biology is merely a way of saying that nothing can be done about it so there's no point in trying. That's a lazy justification for perpetuating racial discrimination.

I support promoting the idea of racial equality. It's an absolute requirement for a civilized world. I'm just making an observation. I don't think the fact that we perceive physical differences among ourselves is particularly bad or difficult to deal with. I think racial discrimination is rather the result of a racial/cultural hierarchy, which exists for very understandable reasons.

This hierarchy needs to be flattened. That's where things get difficult. The most that groups at the top of the hierarchy can do is become aware of the problem and eliminate barriers. In the United States, legal barriers have been long removed, and there is a high level of awareness of the problem. Most importantly, there is the ingrained notion that people ought to be judged on their own merits.