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Original post by edwinbradford I guess my question is answered, there are no other examples of designers coming from science and engineering backgrounds outside of the software industry.

But your question is meaningless unless you define "designer". You can't compare making games to making trendy clothes or aircraft just because of a arbitrary industry specific naming convention.

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Original post by edwinbradford LOL, I don't think I used a "statistics gathering technique" as far as I remember? ...Tom, I had a quick look at your web site, you've been in the industry for a while, its good to hear your anecdotal evidence that game designers are coming from other diverse areas. It hasn't been my experience ...I've only worked at two games companies ...Obviously I won't reply to the few comments dismissing my position as ignorance, that's not going to help your argument, thanks to all that posted constructive information.

Whoa! Simmer down, Edwin.
My point was that your hypothesis (that all game designers started out as programmers) was based on insufficient evidence. (Your "statistics gathering technique" is "I've... worked at two games companies" "to find that games designers, possibly the most important creative role for the team, come from programming courses or are ex-programmers.") I never said you were an ignoramus, and I still do not say any such thing.

My experience covers more than two companies, and probably a lot more years than you've spent working at those two companies. IOW, my "anecdotal evidence" outweighs your "anecdotal evidence" upon which your hypothesis is based.

My stance is that IF your hypothesis (all game designers started out as programmers) is wrong, then everything about your question ("Name another industry whose "Designers" are programmers?") is moot, and you should drop it.

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[1]Correction... a lot of other *programmers* have given *their opinion* why. [2]I don't think this thread is really going anywhere is it, [3] I suspected it would be largely programmers but wasn't sure, [4] its not the place for opinions from all sides really is it. [5] I guess my question is answered, [6] there are no other examples of designers coming from science and engineering backgrounds outside of the software industry.

1. No. Not only programmers.
2. The problem with this thread is that it was based on a faulty premise. That doesn't mean you're ignorant, it only means that your experience in the industry isn't very long yet.
3. Okay, glad to hear you're willing to hear that your central premise may not have been correct.
4. To the contrary.
5. Yes, I think so too.
6. No, this is the wrong conclusion to draw -- it's still based on a flawed central premise.

Anyone without knowledge of programming could possibly be unable to comprehend the complexity of programming required for things.

Designer: i want the player to be able to walk freely around the world and be able to climb things to reach vantage points.

programmer: So thats collision, climbable surface detection, physics, ledge detection, animation, dynamic view range, ..........


This can probably be translated to most other design jobs.
How can you design clothes without at least some knowledge of the properties of fabrics.
How can you design a bridge without knowledge of the properties of steel and concrete etc...
How can you write a book without knowledge of the language you're going to use.

IMO, games SHOULD be designed by such people. How many posts are there in the games design section about MMO's that have been written without a thought for the complexity of the task.

As for logical thinking, i'm a physics student and i have a very logical mind imo, but there is NOT A CHANCE that this reduces my creativity, it simply allows me to understand what is and isn't possible, therefore i work within limits.

I'm a game designer who studied art, programming, and information engineering in school. One of the other designers at my company has a technical writing and QA background, a former designer has a Creative Writing degree, and another had a Game Design degree from Full Sail. His first job as a game designer had him doing a lot of scripting.

So, in other words, out of all of the designers at my company, none of us come from a CS background. I don't understand where this argument is coming from. Game Designers come from an incredibly varied set of backgrounds. Sure, there are companies that require a lot of programming out of their designers, but not all of them are like that. I mean, I work almost entirely as a "planner", being the guy who writes the GDD, interacts with the various department heads, and sits down with team mates to flesh out UI, game mechanics, etc. My schooling was very "information engineering" heavy.

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Original post by zer0wolf I don't understand where this argument is coming from.

It's just flame bait. Leave him alone.

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Original post by Hodgman Quote: Original post by zer0wolf I don't understand where this argument is coming from. It's just flame bait. Leave him alone.

It's not flame bait, because he's obviously not looking to argue. No, this is a perfect example of confirmation bias, so unless you happen to agree with him that programmers can't possibly be creative, posting is a waste of time.

My previous job was in the hardware (microchip) industry. All of the designers were programmers and came from an engineering background. When it comes to designing microchips, making silicon look pretty is fairly low on the priority scale, so artists really didn't get much say in anything at all. In fact we didn't employ any as such - one of the guys in the marketing department had some decent art skills, anything else got outsourced or made do with programmer art.

For my current job in games, none of the designers (to my knowledge) have any programming background at all. That said, just about everyone on the team; producers, designers, programmers, and artists - has some creative input on the final game.

In any case, this thread is just flamebait. The idea that people with art degrees have a monopoly on creativity is just completely ridiculous. Many of the people in games chose to pursue that career because they are creative people - whether they express that creativity in writing, visual artwork, code, or whatever.