The argument is completely moot. A job title is just that - a job title, and it serves only the purpose of being recogniseable in that trade.

I mean, if you work at Subway, you are a Sandwich Artist - that is your title. Does that mean you have any artistic ability? No. It just means you can make sandwiches to a specification.

Edit: Also, there are such things as Software Designers, and Product Designers.

I'd anciticipate, that the product design would be far more involved in engineering, than it would in being specifically 'art'.

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Original post by Buster2000 Many people seem to think a designer gets to think up new game ideas, produce some kind of documentation and then leave it to the programmers and artists to create a game. This isn't the case.

Yeah, it's always different.
Some places that I've worked, half of a designer's job would be project management (keeping the implementation on track, after designing). This same place had a team of "Games Executives" (from many backgrounds, including art or maths) who were basically QA for game ideas.

Another job title to look out for is "Creative Director", often these people do the arty/linguistic design work, and then the "Game Designers" do the mathematical and game mechanic work.

I've never actually worked in a professional game development firm, but from what I read, a healthy design is gathered from everyone in the development team (Or at least, the seniors in each branch). Which makes sense.


All the elements in the game need to be in perfect harmony.

Industrial, product, automotive, city, bridge, electrical, software design. In fact the only types of design I can think of that don't require a mostly engineering background are graphic and fashion design.

Though I think you will find that game design isn't dominated by programmers as it is the fact that game design isn't an entry level job and as such the population to draw from for the position is more than 50% programmers and therefore they are over represented compared to say butchers or candle stick makers but fairly in line with the hiring pool.

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Original post by edwinbradford Bridge Design is called "Engineering". Of all those listed, software design is correct.

Software is usually engineered as well. I just wanted to make the point that design with math involved is called engineering, and that outside of graphic design all design work is done by someone with a primarily mathematical background.

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Original post by edwinbradford I should have asked in my original post for posters to include their discipline so we can see whether you speak as an artist, programmer or otherwise.

I'm a game designer and a game producer. I'm not a programmer. In my many years in the game industry, most game designers I've met were also not programmers.
Read:
http://www.igda.org/breakingin/path_design.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson14.htm

What I don't understand is how you can make statements like 'I feel a little reassured.' about some professional designers not having programmer backgrounds, and then expect people not to be a tad peeved.

Your question was loaded from the start, it was made with the presumption that programmers are somehow incapable of the same creative output as other people in the development team. Why you feel so vocal about it, I have absolutely no idea. A lot of people questioned that presumption, and you conveniently waved them aside because they didn't answer your original question.

So yes, programmers giving creative input is a concept completely unique to game development. Why? Because the only other industry is business development. There aren't any other industries with programmers. Programming is also not the same thing as engineering. It used to be in the engineering faculty here (Back in the Unix Age), but it's own faculty was soon founded, and game development is a different branch from business development.

So, congratulations, you found the answer you were looking for, but your presumptions are completely and utterly baseless, and a lot of people have given the reasons why.

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Original post by WazzatManSo yes, programmers giving creative input is a concept completely unique to game development. Why? Because the only other industry is business development. There aren't any other industries with programmers.

Game development and business development are not the only industries with programmers, and game development isn't the only industry where progammers (aka, software engineers, software developers, software designers, software design engineers) provide creative input in to the product.

The entire argument is flawed by the all to literal and extreme use of the terms "design" and "engineering". Game design has very little in common with concepts of art and artistic expression. On its elementary level (design of mechanics, rule sets, balance, playing experience) it has -nothing- in common with artistic expression.

Many programmers that do not design the games or software still do the "lower level" design of their program's structure. Game programming especially often requires active thinking and original solutions to original problems.

On the other hand, game design may be founded upon a few key ideas, but for the most part it is a hard crunch of logic, balance, probability and basic psychology analysis. This does not only apply to computer games - just look at any of the Dungeons & Dragons or other pen-and-paper RPG rulebooks.

Not all game designers are programmers, neither is any programmer able to design a game properly. But due to conceptual similarities, programming is still THE background for game designers to come from - and even those that did not could still easily get into programming if they would wish to (and with the advance of fast and simple prototyping languages, many do). Whereas someone with an artistic background (and mindset) would likely struggle to get into either programming or game/software design.

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Original post by edwinbradford I guess my question is answered, there are no other examples of designers coming from science and engineering backgrounds outside of the software industry.

What the hey? You're assuming there's none at all? That there mightn't be a benefit to having some technical background if you're a designer in an industrial field?

Just a quick Google search for 'designer engineer' (without quotes) dredged up this business week article about Eloi Baudoux with his degrees in engineering and design and his work in Renault (engineering came first, and the article touches on how he had to fight the perception that he wasn't "creative" due to this background. [smile])