I think it all depends on the gendre, personaly I am one of the many that think Starcraft is the best game that was ever released for the PC, and being a Starwars and PC strategy games fan I was really exited to know that LucasArts was releasing Force Commander, a Real Time Strategy Game based on Starwars, well, the thing sucks, and you want to know why? Because it is a 3d RTS, so you have to deal with camera angles, zooming, panning, elevation, and so many things that by the time you get focused on your troops they are dead and another group is being attacked, I still would like to see a good 2D strategy game based on Starwars, and still think Starcraft is the best on the gendre so far (still crossing my fingers for a sequel).

on the other hand a shooter is better with 3d, I couldnt Imagine Playing Syphon filter or metal Gear Solid on 2d,
RPG seems to be the only gendre that can be good regardless of the graphic design, have you seen Baldurs Gate? Ice Wind Dale? its 2d, and final fantasy 7,8 and 9 have used 3d, as well as Brave Fencer Musashi (a great game).

Diablo 2 has a place of its own. It was done better then the first and it was an enjoying game to play untill you beat it.

Game Mags and many critics rated it a great/average game, but called the graphics "out dated". Getting that feedback, blizzard anounced that they would never make a 2d game. I blame the critics and the people who listen to them. Why should a game be compared to another, because people can''t afford to buy both? Gamers will always put money to buy a game, and if it was not for the greedy markup of games, people would buy more. Remember how much NES cost? Inflation can''t be that bad .

I agree that diablo 2 has outdated graphics, but not because of the 2D Aproach, I like 2D Games better, and I like Diablo 2, but the reason I think the graphics on diablo are outdated is because they used a video mode of about 640X400 (I am not sure) with 256 colors, I think all computers now can at least run 800x600 and 16bit, thats the only thing I didnt liked, and that I think might give anyone the idea of outdated graphics, why did they do it? I dont know, backwards compativility with PII 300mhz ??? maybe?
I hope they think again before giving up on 2D, because like I said before 2D is the best for RTS, and Blizzard is the best at RTS.

See ya

Edited by - kwizatz on July 4, 2001 8:35:07 PM

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
I think 2D games can have an association with amateurism. If I''m downloading a game, and it''s 3D, I can be reasonably assured that the developer has some experience, but if it''s 2D, it could easily be made by a 14 year old playing about with DirectDraw

With all these kids out here who think they "know" OpenGL w/o having the slightest idea of game design. I''d say the opposite is probably true.

2d will never be completely wiped out. I guess you can say that because of card games and games like that. This past year has seen a drop in 2d games and a jump in 3d though.




"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams."
- Willy Wonka

I''m curious, do any of you miss the good old games like Prince of Persia or X-COM? I remember playing them for HOURS. How about the old RPGs? My sister''s playing Chrono Trigger on SNES9x right now. I don''t think 2D games will ever die. Personally, I miss the side scrollers. They were so much fun! These new 3D games just don''t have the fun factor in them

it is kind of wierd how older games can be better the sequels. Like Super C for NES 8 bit was better than whatever Contra game they made for SNES. Same thing for Castlevania.



...A CRPG in development...

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

Speaking to all out there who feel that 2D is outdated:

This 3D thing is rediculous. Everyone wants to have holodecks, essentially, with 100% realism.

To heck with realism. I see realism all the time, and I play games get tied up in something else--something that isn't real.

Just like color shouldn't be required for a film to be loved (and I assert that many black and white films are so much more powerful for having lacked color), 3D shouldn't be required for a game to be cherished or even just to receive attention.

So, while all of you kids are off "holodecking," I'll be the only one still playing Secret of Mana, Magical Chase, Super Mario Bros. x, Bonk's Adventure, etc., all by my lonesome self, having just as much fun with them as I ever did.

But you kids go ahead and enjoy your 3D.

3D marks the death of the video game as the artform it once was--not so much for the 3D itself, but the attitude that it's intrinsically "better." Where once developers felt free to explore different ways of conveying the game world, now everybody just wants realism. Yipee. What is so wrong with having a game look like an interactive story book like Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island? It's not 3D. What's so wrong with having a game look like it was hand-painted like Legend of Mana? It's not 3D. Yes, you must have caught my sarcasm.

Of course, there are still developers out there who aren't so bewitched by the lure of 3D as to think that they absolutely must make their games 3D. But they realize that nobody will take them seriously if they're not.

Looking back at my ramblings, I realize that I've practically asked for flaming. Don't bother, because I and those who feel similar are clearly a vast minority. I still fear that I'm the only one truly mourning the loss of the artform that was the video game.

Edited by - merlin9x9 on July 4, 2001 12:33:07 AM

quote: Original post by JDog

Getting that feedback, blizzard anounced that they would never make a 2d game.

That never happened.

Blizzard is making Warcraft III 3D because of the time and memory they will save from keeping units in 3D than rendering thousands of 2D images. The game will still play like a 2D RTS (the camera will be locked).



---------------
Ratfest.org

Well, the only thing I heard about Blizzard saying ANYTHING was regarding Starcraft. They decreed that they would never make a normal tiled game LOOK Isometric because it was too damn hard. They said that from now on it is fully 2D Iso or 3D...

Can''t blame em... Its a bugger to get square tiles to look diagonal and have decent building allotments.

As for 2D dying? Bah! I prefer 2D when it comes to most games. 3D is just the hype at the moment until they start bringing out AI accellerators instead of video accellerators *dwarfsoft hopes, and starts praying*

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - The future of RPGs Thanks to all the goblins in the GDCorner niche

Hey Dwarf, this may be a coincidence, but last night we had a discussion about that, me and a programmer on my team. AI cards, specific hardware, designed to speed up the AI of the software (not only games). It could have specific instructions coded into it's cpu, some really basic stuff, just the way the 3d accelerators are made. But I guess we're all dreaming...

And who said 2d is dead or dying? I see more and more people fed up with exploited 3d game graphics and vast design flaws. I see people digging the old school dos dames. I see my MAME roms collection growing bigger and bigger every day. I see Secrets of mana 3 and Chronotrigger in my /games folder.

What I see is big companies trying to force the 3d to the player, but they won't sucseed, unless they've got games to offer that are up to the 2d-ones.

Boby Dimitrov
boby@shararagames.com
Sharara Games Team

Edited by - BobyDimitrov on July 5, 2001 8:23:08 AM