Quote: Original post by Captain Goatse

Quote: Original post by Dmytry
The most ironic part is, Apple holds patent on interpreter for font hinting data in TTF format (i.e. for making fonts look OK on display). Linux distros can't ship with font hinting enabled, and you have to go through some hops to violate Apple's patent.
What could be less innovative than holding patent on something, not implementing it yourself but instead using it solely to prevent others from implementing it?

What stops Linux from implementing font hinting?
Yeah, Linux. (nothing)


(edit: removed a potentially offensive linux neckbeard comment)

lol nickname.
Linux (freetype actually) implements font hinting just fine, thank you, which is however turned off by default due to threat of lawsuit, and you need to either rebuild it yourself or if you're lucky get it from some semi-illegal stuff repository.
Most regular users do not do that, so they get "auto-hinting" which doesn't make use of font hinting data supplied in TTF but instead tries to guess it. That looks worse than true font hinting (but still leaps and bounds better than no hinting at all).

Quote: Original post by Trapper Zoid

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Quote: Original post by Dmytry
But is it a fault of the Mac's font rendering or a fault of Lucida Grande, the default Mac system font?

Why should we, end users, care? Even if you could easily tweak it away (like replacing font in all the applications), which you couldn't, choosing bad font is still a fault.

Because it's a much more minor fault than saying all fonts have that problem. Yes, it would be better that Lucida Grande was better kerned for smaller font sizes, much the same as how Tahoma should have better spacing in normal weight for smaller font sizes. Given I don't stare at the menu bar all day it's nowhere near as serious as if it were a font rendering problem for all text.

I don't care. The font sucks and is hard coded. Changing it, for all i know, may very well break everything (if widgets are positioned and sized absolutely) and be extremely difficult to implement.
Other fonts on OS X render badly as well, just not so much.

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I'd recommend to sticking to 'serif' and 'sans-serif' for content and make sure your website looks ok no matter what fonts user chooses for those.

There's a difference between "workable for default fonts" and "look seamless with the feel of the site". If I didn't think typography mattered, I wouldn't be having this discussion about fonts. [wink]

I use Firefox and always have "allow pages to choose their own fonts instead of my selection above" unchecked.
Why, because I also thinks that typography matters, and I prefer reading the fonts I like as opposed to fonts that web designer likes.
If your site breaks with such settings, too bad for your site - I'm not changing my settings.

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Re: other Mac OS problems. Yeah, Finder is annoying at times. And the standard help functionality in Leopard seems to be nigh unusable - constantly trying to load pages whenever I use it. Of course, I think Windows Help is almost as unusable, but at least it loaded stuff.

I still prefer Mac OS for work though [wink]. I really don't recommend having a policy of ignoring Macs, especially if you're planning of being an indie develoer. The Mac market for indie games is far too large to ignore.

I'll see when I release. If mac share of customers is less than say 20% or so (depending to number of mac specific issues) , my next game may not support mac at all, or have mac support as late afterthought.

Quote: Original post by Dmytry

Quote: Original post by Simian Man

Quote: Original post by Dmytry
thing that I hate the most about OSX: how its perceived as pinnacle of usability, such pinnacle that it gets imitated elsewhere.
For example, gnome file manager (nautilus), since I dunno which version, imitates this exact issue: it got stupid "button bar", which is not only less useful but also requires more code than just plain text control. Clearly, imitation of OS X. The gnome's usability team just makes things worse, with their "if it works for apple it must work for Linux" mentality.

In nautilus, there is a button to the left that toggles between button and entry mode. I love the usability of Gnome because the defaults are fairly good and, if you don't like them, everything can be changed - almost entirely through the normal GUI. gconf-editor is kind of crap, but I'd rather be able to make a change there than not have the option at all.

Hmm. What version? I have 2.24.0 and its not here . (I almost never use it tho)
Or are you speaking of file picker dialog?

What Simian Man said. Also, try out "gTweakUi" (or similarly named). I have configured nautilus so that I have no buttons at all, can navigate by ctrl+L or by skimming through directories by typing the first letters of their names as I'd do on windows.

Also, there's a global keyboard shortcut (afair), that let's you put in a directory name and then opens nautilus in that directory.

Some thing I don't understand about Mac is:

Why the one mouse button thing? Can't they just make normal mice? Two or 3 buttons are necessary to have a proper interface. Lots of complex 3D programs use 3 mouse buttons to zoom, pan, rotate, ... easily.

I came into contact with Mac only once. We're playing a lot of AOMX lately, and I don't have to reboot to Windows to play it because it works in Wine in my Linux. Some guy is using a MacBook though, and he can reboot to Windows with it and then play AOMX. However he wanted to be able to play it without rebooting to Windows like me, so we tried installing Wine on his mac.

However that failed in all ways. There was no binary build of Wine available for Mac. The ./configure script complained about root user, and there was appearantly no easy way according to him to get such a user. After a while that worked though. It also turned out that in the file manager of Mac, you can't easily copy the full path of the current folder to clipboard, now that is annoying! And then when doing make, it turned out Mac does not have a compiler on it by default, and no way to install one from the internet! And the guy didn't have his Mac CD available, it was at his house elsewhere in Belgium. So we just had to give up.

Frustrating yeah.

This reminds me of that onion clip of the macbook wheel.

I use PC most of the time so I am biased to using PC's and when I do have to use a Mac I find I can get pretty creative with curse words. I understand how some people can find it easier to use though. I have never used a Mac for work so I really cant argue which is better but I'm pretty certain I would find it a bit irritating - especially at first. I remember trying to switch from 3DS max to using Lightwave because I wanted to try and get in to macs but it was all a bit too much at the time. Like it was said before though - each to their own.

Quote: Original post by Lode
However that failed in all ways. There was no binary build of Wine available for Mac.

There is; I think it's called CrossOver Office. I've used it to play Steam games.

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The ./configure script complained about root user, and there was appearantly no easy way according to him to get such a user.

You can activate the root user if you want to, it's just a checkbox somewhere.

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After a while that worked though. It also turned out that in the file manager of Mac, you can't easily copy the full path of the current folder to clipboard, now that is annoying!

You can drag a file to a terminal window and you'll get the file path. Drag a file to any panel that accepts files and it'll work.

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And then when doing make, it turned out Mac does not have a compiler on it by default, and no way to install one from the internet! And the guy didn't have his Mac CD available, it was at his house elsewhere in Belgium. So we just had to give up.

There's a way to install a compiler from the Internet; just do like you usually do. Either download Xcode (which also comes on the install disc) or download a pre-compiled binary of gcc or whatever.

Edit: I feel silly for making a serious post in this thread, is there some kind of irony I've missed?

[Edited by - pointer on April 14, 2009 10:05:31 AM]

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Why the one mouse button thing? Can't they just make normal mice? Two or 3 buttons are necessary to have a proper interface. Lots of complex 3D programs use 3 mouse buttons to zoom, pan, rotate, ... easily.

mac-sucks.com

Quote: Original post by pointer

Quote: Original post by Lode
However that failed in all ways. There was no binary build of Wine available for Mac.

There is; I think it's called CrossOver Office. I've used it to play Steam games.

CrossOver Mac is a proprietary software suite built off of wine (which runs about $40, although there is a trial version available), so it isn't quite the same thing. On the other hand, MacPorts / fink often has a recent version of (dar)wine available, so it should be possible to just install either and grab a binary that way.

I hate macs (I am now typing on one). Everything takes far more clicking than Windows and every time Apple releases a new version of OSx it breaks all the previous interface functionality, rendering the possibility of using something like ShapeShifter to modify the interface useless. Windows w/ Litestep is a racecar compared to OSx being a Ford Focus. Also, most people who glorify Mac tend to not care about customizability of the interface (which is just NeXTSTEP 5 in OSx) or learning about how their pc actually works. I mean, you can't even change the system font. Windows (I will specifically exclude Vista which is an abomination) w/ Spybot, ZoneAlarm, and regularly defragged is stable and gives you far more options in terms of software (though CrossOver in OSx is cool). It's an OS interface meant for children, not professional programmers who can actually compute their way out of a wet paper bag. OSx is just a necessary evil to the programming I'm doing right now. Otherwise I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. I'd rather rub rock salt in my eyes than use it on most days.

Quote: Original post by Lode
Some thing I don't understand about Mac is:

Why the one mouse button thing? Can't they just make normal mice? Two or 3 buttons are necessary to have a proper interface. Lots of complex 3D programs use 3 mouse buttons to zoom, pan, rotate, ... easily.

You have to Ctrl-click to get the right mouse button. Yeah, lame....