LightWave has the best modeller I know, but I haven''t seen Maya or other big stars. LW has nice, easy controls. At least compared to 3DS Max R3. I''m quite good modeller, but I just can''t understand Max. It has very stupid interface.

as a question... how many people reading this have actually used Rhino? Am I the only one?

I''ve never seen Maya, but Rhino''s camera controls are very sensical and easy-to-use... and as this discussion seems to be showing, ease-of-use if often better than power when picking a modeller, and most of that factor is in the interfae... I have yet to see ANY modeller with a better interface than Rhino

www.rhino3d.com Get a free demo!

--Tr][aD--

I''m afraid I must disagree strongly with Triad. If you find Blender frustrating, you simply haven''t experimented with it long enough.

It is in fact very powerful in modelling as well as rendering, and has many useful tools that other programs don''t provide. Things like the "remdoubles" command I have yet to see in any other app, and it is invaluable when making complex models with polygons.

Blender actually has four different rotation systems, and I find it hard to believe you didn''t find one you could use easily among them.

Blender can easily be made to provide as many simultaneous different views of a scene as you want, just split the window and select a different view for each one.

Blender does have a basic tooltips system, but relying on that isn''t in my opinion the correct way to learn it. You have to use tutorials, and buying the manual (which costs only slightly more than the average computer game, and a lot less than 3DSM) also helps.

The problem is that most 3D modellers you can dive straight into and create a crude scene in a couple of minutes after installing them. With Blender, you MUST start small and work your way up.

This is because Blender is designed for very precise use, and as a consequence one thing it doesn''t do is lend itself towards improvisation, which is the way many people often work.

With Blender, you should plan your scene carefully on paper before you start modelling. Do third angle projection, isometric sketches, anything that helps get clear in your mind what you''re trying to do. Only then can you hope to do a decent job of modelling it. This does apply to any 3D program, but it is especially important for Blender.

Everybody here seems to worship simple, basic controls. This is good when you''re starting out, but one day you''ll try to do something really complex and find the controls of your program simply aren''t flexible enough.

...and I must (politely) disagree with you. IMO, if a modeller takes days or weeks to learn how to use it, it's not a well-written modeller. I like a modeller I can install and be using in minutes. If I have to sit and stare at it and think, "Now how the heck do I use this thing", it's a bad modeller.


Strata Advice:
Don't use strata... Don't even THINK about using strata... Don't even think about THINKING about using strata...

I installed it, started it, and wondered where I was supposed to model. OK, File-
Access Violation

Major points off (score is now deep in the red)

Okay, so I hit 'close'... only it doesn't... I go to task manager and try to close it... it still doesn't...
Eventually, I had to REBOOT to get rid of it... even "Log Off" which usually closes anything, crashed or not, was unsuccessful...

It was promptly uninstalled


This is just my opinion. If strata works for you, wel then... good for you. As for me, I never plan on touching the thing ever again.

Anyone reading this that hasn't already, please go to www.rhino3d.com and get yourself a free demo of Rhino. You won't regret it...

...and for those that wonder why I, a poor miserable game programmer ( ) support this software... it's because it's under $1k ($195 if you're a student), and used by major industry giants to design really expensive thing... like cars (Ford), shoes (adidas), and boats... and I'm not kidding, go to the site and check it out! Plus, it runs great on just about any PC, even with absolutely no graphics acceleration.

"You have to read the manuals" is also a terrible way to have to learn a program, IMO... and I COMPLETELY fail to see why "dive right in" is a bad thing... "Dive right in" means the program is easier to use... as long as there are features above and beyond the easiest ones (like basic primitives), there's nothing wrong with this kind of program. Does the fact that it takes me ten minutes to figure out how to move an object mean that that program moves objects better than another? I think just the opposite is true, in fact. Blender's system of moving, sizing, rotating, etc. is crude and imprecise. I guarantee you that Ford motor company wouldn't design a car using Blender when a single object being misaligned by as litle as a hundredth of an inch will ruin a $10,000 (MFR cost) car.

btw: big companies don't like hard-to-learn programs. You know why? Eiser to learn=less training time=less lost productivity=more $$ ...and you shouldn't either, for about the same reasons...

oh, one other thing... Rhino also has an SDK out there (or at least has one coming soon, I've gotten a bit behind 'recent') so you can write (or DL) your own tools if the built-in ones aren't sufficient... of course, if I understand ight, Blender is open-source, so maybe that's the same difference... but with Rhino, you're also getting tech support, and I've had dealings with the Rhino people... they're quite friendly, prompt, and can often get you answers, whereas I believe blender is oficially unsupported. Sure, you can get support, but it has zero legal backing.

...if you still want to tell me I'm wrong, get Rhino and try it, then tell me WHY I'm wrong, with specific reasons comparing the two programs.. I've used both. Have you?

--Tr][aD--

Edited by - TrIaD on July 4, 2001 5:30:10 PM

Some good feed back, thanks...

quote:
-Captain Insanity


If you find Blender frustrating, you simply haven''t experimented with it long enough.

It is in fact very powerful in modelling as well as rendering, and has many useful tools that other programs don''t provide. Things like the "remdoubles" command I have yet to see in any other app, and it is invaluable when making complex models with polygons.

Blender actually has four different rotation systems, and I find it hard to believe you didn''t find one you could use easily among them.

Blender can easily be made to provide as many simultaneous different views of a scene as you want, just split the window and select a different view for each one.

Blender does have a basic tooltips system, but relying on that isn''t in my opinion the correct way to learn it. You have to use tutorials, and buying the manual (which costs only slightly more than the average computer game, and a lot less than 3DSM) also helps.

The problem is that most 3D modellers you can dive straight into and create a crude scene in a couple of minutes after installing them. With Blender, you MUST start small and work your way up.

This is the kind of thing I''m looking for to quote in my article. Explain your reasoning as to why you like the software, but don''t sit their praising it all the time, point out it''s faults as well.

Has anyone here used Maya? If not I think I''ll have to download the demo before I write the article, finding the time to use it though is another thing. I can already see that there are going to be debates as to which is the best modeller, I''ll say this now though, there is no stand out modeller that offers everything ie. powerfull, easy to use, well priced.

Keep those replies comming...

--------------------------
"640K ought to be enough for anybody." -Bill Gates 1981

okay...

Rhino gets a bit odd at times when you need to work on strange surfaces... it can't delete individual triangles, only individual vertecies which takes out all triangles that use tha vertex...

you can't reverse the UV params on a surface, to my infinite annoyance... and its designed for NURBS modelling, not poly-based... but with systems developing, becoming better and better at showing more and more polys, this is less of an issue every day...

the toolboxes don't fit well on smaller screens (i.e. lower rez), but that's going to be a problem with anything you use...
>> General advice: the higher rez you run your desktop at, the better, no matter WHAT you use (unless it's heavily hardware-dependant)

also, I've only got 1.0, newer versions have a command to change the poly-rez of a mesh... similar techniques have been discussed in game-programming books, forums, etc.

on the other hand, it works, it's very easy to use, it's flexible and expandable, and it's strongly backed by major companies as well as produced by a corporate entity that can offer serious support, not just "what do other users think about your problem?". It also uses 'normal' windows menus, giving the interface a much more 'developed' feel, unlike Blender's menu system that's written by them, and I still haven't entirely figured out... Maybe using 'glyphs' for commands is great, but there's no excuse for me having to need to learn how to open a file

I think you need to say something about how much of a pain trying to learn Blender is...
...and I don't think Captain Insanity is doing a very good job pointing out Blender's faults either

One major thing Rhino has in it's favor... and I don't care what you think about my "praising" it... Rhino doesn't crash... I don't really remember ever outright crashing Rhino, and I'm pretty sure if I ever did it was from memory overload... i.e. having too many apps running... I've already told my strata woe story, which doesn't need repeating... and I'm quite sure I've crashed Blender... Features and ease-of-use aside, Rhino is by far the most STABLE modeller I've ever used, other than Bryce which is equally stable but useless for modelling... and again, that comes from being backed by a real company... if you're selling a product, you can't aford to have it crashing on your users (unless your strata, but forget I said that )

--Tr][aD--

ok, edit: for some strange reason (probably because everyone here idolizes it at least as much as I idolize rhino) Blender is still sitting on my hard drive... so I ran it, and guess what? it failed to start btw, Rhino doesn't mess with your gamma correction, either

Edited by - TrIaD on July 4, 2001 7:53:14 PM

I was going to edit this into my last message, but it was getting long...

My story about trying to use Blender:

It decided to run after I closed some stuff...
I tried the big fat "render" button... The window appeared somewhere above the top of my screen... how do you get rid of that render window?

I still have no clue what these four rotations are, I''ve only found one...

Okay, so, there ARE tooltips... it''d be nice if I could read them, tho, half of them keep getting erased...

Oh, look the menus have that same drawing bug

Ooh, a "metaball"... okay, that''s kinda cool (one point, score=-59)

I figure out how to change the display in the bottom pane, and how to ''maximize'' the panes... only now, how the heck do I get that display pane back??

*piff!* Um... where''d it go? Oh, look, Blender suddenly and spontaneously terminated, no error, no reason... now there''s a feature I have yet to see in any other modeller...


My assessment: tell me when Blender reaches version 6.0, AND when it actually works right, and maybe I''ll consider using it...

--Tr][aD--

I've used 3D Studio MAX since version 1 and I've never tried most of the other modelers, because I just don't have the time to try each one enough to really get a feel for it. Because I don't do modeling full time and Max can do everything I need I haven't bothered. If I was just starting now, as a hobbiest, I'd definitely try Strata and Blender. You can't beat the price.

Max works for me because it supports all the major modeling primitives fairly well. Maxscript is also great for game development. It is very easy to write custom exporters and other tools. Someone else mentioned they liked the camera controls of their chosen software better and while I haven't used that software I definitely think Max's camera movement could be better. It would be nice to be able to control the camera like a first person game. One other feature I really like about Max is surface tools. It's great for creating characters and the result converts nicely into polygons since most engines don't support patches.

Another program I want to throw into the mix is fairly new. SketchUP. Available at sketch3d.com. This program is designed for architects, but I think with the proper feedback to the developers it's modeling ideas would be great for level design. You don't even need a manual to create some great architectural structures. Just watch a few minutes of tutorial footage and you're ready to go. SketchUp is just a modeler it doesn't even do texturing, but it's so cool I sincerely hope some of its ideas make it into level editors.


--
http://www.3dcgi.com/


Edited by - 3dcgi on July 4, 2001 11:43:29 PM

A phrase commonly heard around this office is "Arrggh! Max crashed again!" Some of the artists here prefer Maya. Some prefer Lightwave. Some model in Maya and then animate in Max.

I find Blender''s interface extremely foreign. Windows has a whole range of controls that every Window user is already familiar with. Why did they have to throw all that knowledge away and make all new controls for Blender?

MilkShape is great for low-poly. It is missing some features when compared to the likes of Max and Maya, but when you''re on a budget, it''s hard to beat. The range of standard import and export plug-ins is very impressive, plus with the SDK it is very easy to add your own or use the MS3D format directly.

I tried a free version of Truespace that came on a magazine CD. It will not run on Windows 2000 because it looks for OPENGL.DLL, not OPENGL32.DLL.

I could not get the hang of Amapi 4.15. It''s single view was strange. Where''s the ortho views? Maybe I didn''t dig deep enough.

These are my opinions from a programmer''s point of view.

Steve ''Sly'' Williams  Code Monkey  Krome Studios

Does anybody use trueSpace ? Man i''m one step to buy it , but i just need some good words why that modeler is good ! Please anyone, help me !

"The shortcut is not always the best way "

Metal Typhoon