I've done some light reading of previous posts on this topic and haven't really found anything satisfactory. For a basis of where I'd like to apply this imagine a FPS style game with swords and sorcery instead of chainguns and grenades. To compare and contrast lets look at the Dungeons and Dragons model of caster resources versus the typical MMO version. As a mage in D&D you had to declare which spells you memorized and could only cast those spells from a given finite pool of spells. For example around level 5 you had access to 3 level 1 spells 2 level 2 spells 1 level 3 spell. Each level of spell had the ability to deal more damage, but further, each level of spell was a unique pool of spells. For example, at level 3 you obtained the fireball spell, which did big damage over an area of effect. Level 2 did not have access to a less damaging fireball with a smaller area of effect, it had its own unique set of spells. Once you exhausted this spell pool you had to rest and rememorize your spells. When you try to apply this system in a game context you quickly run in to several problems. Resting and rememorizing isn't a compelling action in a first person shooter. Because the pace is compressed, and because high levels of play in good first person shooters can have protracted engagments, the caster class is very subject to either having far more resources than balance would dictate, or be very susceptible to running out of resources mid battle and becoming easy fodder for non-caster classes. The typical solution to this issue is the mana bar and mana pool. Spells are no longer memorized, rather you have X amount of mana or energy or spirit or whatever name you choose to represent your casting resource. Each spell has an associated cost and once you've delpleted your mana pool you can no longer cast. Then tacked on are methods to regenerate your mana, such as drinking, meditating, over time, and buffs. The mana pool concept gives the caster a lot of freedom when choosing which spell to cast. They no longer have to "load" their spells and can choose to cast a few very high level destructive spells or many lower level spells. This also causes a few problems. Assume spells from level 1 to 5. Assume that when you total the spell levels cast that the caster has enough mana pool to cast a total of 15 spell levels, so they could cast 15 level 1 spells or 3 level 5 spells. Finally assume that a level 5 spell is 5 times more damaging and effective than a level 1 spell. The caster that is able to cast level 5 spells and regenerate mana is insanely overpowered for the time he is casting, and becomes completely underpowered when he is unable to regenerate. Further, because level 5 spells can be chain cast in some scenarios, you can not make it truly devastating as it becomes the "primary nuke" by which all other spells are measured. So when you attempt to balance this class you can choose a median, at which point in some scenarios the class will be underpowered and others it will be overpowered. How do you account for the time context of a fast paced action game, reward forward thinking tactical players, and not end up with a class that is a shooting star but then burns out the moment they unloaded.(Because they will respawn shortly again in a fully overpowered position)? I'm looking for fresh ideas or commentary. Agree or disagree is great.

Perhaps you can combine the two ideas: you've got to "memorize" spells, and each time you cast a spell, you use a bit of mana which needs to recharge before you can cast again.

So say you've got 3 spell "slots", meaning you can only have three spells active at once. In order to memorize a different spell, you've got select the spell to memorize and which slot it'll go in. Then you need to wait for a certain amount of time - during which you can't cast at all (because you're reading the scroll, or whatever). That way, you don't have access to all spells in the heat of battle - you've got to plan ahead.

But combine that with the recharging mana idea, which means that once you've memorized a spell, you can't just cast one after the other.

Pick a DPS and Accuracy figure. Say 100 Damage Per Second, assuming 100% accuracy (simplest). Balance the offensive power of each class against the DPS figure over say a minute.

A Wizard can unload 400 DPS over the course of 20 seconds, leaving the Wizard vulnerable for the next 45 seconds. Or he can conserve his power. However, Wizards need to aim while staying 'at range' and so lets assume they only hit 75% instead of 100%. Hence the 25% Dmg 'boost'.

Since the Wizard only needs to survive 20 seconds to unleash his full power, he doesn't need more than 2000 HP.

This leads to the obvious issue of making sure you aren't attacked while 'recovering', or you'll die.

A Archer can unload 150 DPS all day long. The reason it is 150 is arrows are harder to aim than spells, so we are assuming 66.7% accuracy.

Since Archers need to be able to survive the full minute of combat to unload their 6000 DPS they need 6000 HP.

Then you tweak the individual classes as needed (say the average archer's accuracy is really like 80% or the Wizard can shoot around corners) and balancing out 'special abilities' beyond basic damage.

If a recovery time of 40 seconds is too long, adjust the DPS downwards and the survival / duration of DPS times upward.

The goal is to keep the classes scaling at the same rate with a short enough time period for recovery to be a non-irritant.

Just my two cents.

One thing I've been meaning to try out is applying use requirements to special abilities. This sort of inverts the mana concept. Rather than have a pool that depletes as you cast spells, you have a pool that increases as you cast spells and the level of the pool determines the maximum spell you can cast. So in order to cast a level 2 spell you need to have cast a level 1 spell recently. In order to cast a level 3 spell you need to have cast a level 2 or maybe multiple level 1 spells recently, and so on. Draining the pool could happen over time or with casting a maximum level spell.

The obvious issue with this is preventing someone from continuously casting low level spells to keep his pool full, so this does require some limiters on spell casting. In an FPS environment I think I would try an item based limiter like spell reagents: you burn up your eyes of newt when casting spells, so you need to wait until you're sure you'll need the spells before you start charging up. Or even combine the mana idea with this alternate pool idea. Alternately you can try a requirement like the lower level spells need to connect with an enemy in order to charge the pool or the pool drains much faster if a hostile isn't within sufficient range.

Another related idea is multi-stage spells. You first cast spell A, which does nothing except render the target vulnerable to spell B, which does nothing except render the target vulnerable to spell C, which packs a wallop. Or spell A has little effect like just making the target glow, but also renders the target vulnerable to B, which does a small amount of damage but also renders the target vulnerable to C.

Constantly casting spells via a mana system is not something that leads to overpowered characters if you balance the spells such that higher levels spells are not strictly better but instead simply allow you more options. At that point lower level spells remain integral and may even be your bread and butter spells. On top of that you can create synergies between spells such that the higher level spells improve the lower level ones.

As for forward thinking, that is built into the choice of spells you take in the first place. You can of course require some preparatory step as well if you really need that. I rather like the idea of 'spells' and 'cantrips' cantrips are easy and dont require prep, spells require something, maybe a regent that is consumed above and beyond the mana.

Honestly though, if the game is centered around fast paced action, preparatory steps may not be the best idea.

Well you are basically making an FPS, so look at normal gun based FPS games and see what they do. You have guns that have ammo, rate of fire, accuracy, range etc with each gun having different stats.

So all you really need to do is swap names : instead of a gun you have a spell. The spell has ammo (your total mana divided by it's mana cost),and a rate of fire (what ever cooldown time you give it). Accuracy and range are the same.

The limiting factors is mana regeneration and cooldown time, but I'd add a Fatigue metric to the mix to help you balance more powerful spells. Each spell would have a fatigue cost that increases the length of cooldown times and slows down mana regen for a set duration. This makes powerful spells more taxing to use.

Edit ** Also to fix the respawn at full problem - fatigue and cool down can still effect defeated players, so even though they start at full mana their spells may not be recharged and they will continue to recharge slower due to high fatigue.

Well SiCrane, your idea was kinda taken already by the Warhammer MMO.
You cast spells, that builds up "dark magic"
You do damage, that build up "moral".

As you do lots of damage, your moral goes up, and your moral class spells unlock.
Casting a moral spell dumps all your moral for the effect of the spell (this isn't a lvl1->2->3 type chain, as each ability is kinda distinct)

As you gain "dark magic" your spells do more damage but have a chance to hurt you.
As you gain "dark magic" some of your spells become less useful(to risky to cast if you dont have a healer) while others become more important to cast (dump dark magic as a damage spell).

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Original post by SiCrane One thing I've been meaning to try out is applying use requirements to special abilities. This sort of inverts the mana concept. Rather than have a pool that depletes as you cast spells, you have a pool that increases as you cast spells and the level of the pool determines the maximum spell you can cast. So in order to cast a level 2 spell you need to have cast a level 1 spell recently. In order to cast a level 3 spell you need to have cast a level 2 or maybe multiple level 1 spells recently, and so on. Draining the pool could happen over time or with casting a maximum level spell. The obvious issue with this is preventing someone from continuously casting low level spells to keep his pool full, so this does require some limiters on spell casting. In an FPS environment I think I would try an item based limiter like spell reagents: you burn up your eyes of newt when casting spells, so you need to wait until you're sure you'll need the spells before you start charging up. Or even combine the mana idea with this alternate pool idea. Alternately you can try a requirement like the lower level spells need to connect with an enemy in order to charge the pool or the pool drains much faster if a hostile isn't within sufficient range. Another related idea is multi-stage spells. You first cast spell A, which does nothing except render the target vulnerable to spell B, which does nothing except render the target vulnerable to spell C, which packs a wallop. Or spell A has little effect like just making the target glow, but also renders the target vulnerable to B, which does a small amount of damage but also renders the target vulnerable to C.

Something I considered was having spells broken in to levels like I outlined in the first part of my example.

So say a level 10 caster has:

10 - level 1 spells
5 - level 2 spells
3 - level 3 spells
2 - level 4 spells
2 - level 5 spells

Remember that level 1 spells are unique to level 2 to level 3 etc.

Then you make each spell level regenerate over time. With level 1 spells regenerating faster than level 5 spells.

It's almost like cooldowns except each level has X number of slots(IN this example level 2 has 5 of them), and each of those slots has its own cooldown. So if you loaded the same spell 5 times in level 2 you could cast it 5 times and then wait for the first to come off cooldown.

If you make the cooldown persist through death then casting resources become a function of time, at the same time allowing an essentially limitless supply of lower level spells while capping the monster spells useage.

While a bit more complex, this should be superior to just putting a cooldown on more powerful spells because it will allow you to double up on them if you want to equip yourself in a very offensive way.

Mana is getting to be as outdated in MMOs as Health Packs are in FPS. All future MMO will likely follow suit with Warhammer (and some WoW classes) where all classes are on a regenerating Action Point system. (like WoW Rogue basically). The concept of being completely useless after running out of mana just doesn't work well in game. Especially if it only happens to some classes.

Spell memorization like old-school D+D is pretty much done for as well. Even D+D got rid of it in 4th edition. Casting X spells then sleeping for 12 hours doesn't work in multi-player games. Limited Spell Slots is fine, like in Guild Wars and EQ, but memorization like in old-school D+D? No.

What is the difference between a regenerating Mana Point system and a regenerating Action Point system?