There are plenty of writers who insist on likeable characters and a happy ending, and non-writers who like tragedy and horror. 'Winning' a game only to have your character die (excluding 'good deaths'), to me that sort of makes it seem like the wrong main character was chosen; killing a character is usually a message that that character was doing something wrong, and since games tend to _make_ the player do whatever they do, making them follow the rules of the game then punishing them for doing so is extremely unfair, I'd almost call it psychological abuse.

I put the question to you: would it be possible to turn 'psychological abuse' in writing into a hook?

Quote: Original post by Delphinus
I put the question to you: would it be possible to turn 'psychological abuse' in writing into a hook?

If your target audience is masochists I guess, lol.

Quote: Original post by Hypnotron
Everybody can appreciate good storytelling. That only writers can appreciate a well told story is a load of bunk.

And I'm of the firm belief that if *only* writers/'critics' appreciate your story, you've done something tremendously wrong as well. My 2 cents.


[rant]
I think most forms of modern art suffer from this syndrome, actually. Only art critics are really capable of appreciating most of what's being made.
[/rant]

You could make a game that prompted players to write bits of fiction as they played, like a roleplaying journal or something. But you can't really turn the act of writing fiction into a scorable game, the way you can with a more physical activity like a sport or playing music. Yeah there are Reader Rabbit type spelling and grammar games for kids, but that's really not the same idea. Perhaps you could make a game with a Sims2 dollhouse-like world and characters, where the focus was on the player scripting the action to make a soap opera or comedy? I'd play that. ^_^ Still would be more of a toy than a scorable game though, unless it had a 'singleplayer campaign' built out of 'premade maps with mission objectives' like a twisted version of Warcraft/Starcraft... could be done sort of like a dating sim, but some of the scenarios could have the objective of driving one character to kill another, or surviving a murphy's law day, or getting two characters who hated each other to cooperate enough to solve a problem... And of course people could make their own mission levels and swap them over the internet...

As for both questions:

I couldn't care any less, as long as the game and story themselves are good. I play a game to be entertained. I play a game because I like to dive into <<main character>>'s life, and live the adventures he does. I play a game because I like to be astonished by what the game designer's mind came up with.

As long as you keep me hooked - and I don't care whatever world, characters and settings you use - I will keep playing. I'm looking for new experiences, not ones made up by myself (I've got my own games for that ;D).

Just my two cents,
- Stijn

Quote: Original post by stenny
I'm looking for new experiences, not ones made up by myself (I've got my own games for that ;D).

This mirrors my own feelings entirely - if I wanted to stories to be exactly how I imagine them, I would write them myself. I read/watch/play to discover new stories and the background really doesn't affect my enjoyment of it - I am equally willing to play a philosophical gangster in New York, a cynical, cybernetically enhanced space marine, or a silent scientist. The important factor is not how the character resembles myself or my ideas, but rather that the character is developed with enough depth that I can empathise with his/her unique existence.

Hmm, something that tries to engage someones creativity in order to advance the game... Yet in order to try and 'score' things, you would have to create a program that can measure creative text, not only for technical errors, but for scope and design.

This does prompt another idea though, for a design focused game. Inverse lemmings. Sandbox environment, a series of path goals, and an AI controlled lemming. The game would require the player to design a path for the lemming that meets a series of goals in both specific forms, and in overall complexity. Slap in a user map-sharing tool, a few monthly contests, and a forum, and you might just get something.

And yes, psychological abuse could be turned into a writing hook. At times, the main character(s) should die. Think of the book Songmaster, by Orson Scott Card.

Hmm, I am noticing patterns in this thread, could make an interesting study on escapism.

"1. Who would you want to be in the gameworld? Age, gender, appearance, race, culture, job, backstory and personal goals. Feel free to list multiple options, maybe you can try a different one each time you replay the game."

As a main character I tend to prefer a young adult probably around 23-27 yrs old. The whole, 15-17yr old kid takes on a leadership position and saves the world concept never really made that much sense to me. Though I guess since they are "the one" it always forced maturity upon them. Regardless, 23-27. I typically go with male characters when given an option, usually one that looks a little rough around the edges. I don't have a race preference by I usually like one that looks semi-human, but given the option between human and someone who looks human, but is stronger and faster, but, blue. I'd take the blue guy. Most of the characters I play are Chaotic Good when given the option to make my own decisions, and usually I take a warrior or melee approach. I don't have any real culture preference so long as it fits the rest of the game. It can medieval, native-american, Far East, African, Egyptian, etc.. For back story, I like a person with a hard upbringing that seems to overcome all obstacles though they at times seemed perilous, mainly because it's something I can identify with. Personal Goals, I don't think I cognitively think about generally, but I guess I like a person who is driven by a desire to protect those he cares about. Who will lay it on the line to protect a city or a young girl being mugged in a back alley in his home town.

Not so much related to question one, but in an RPG game I've always liked the games that allow me to build an army out of people I've earned the trust of through good deeds. Such as the Suikoden series. I like being able to recruit people for a larger cause. I also like the city builder aspect which was shown also in Suikoden, where you end up getting your own personal space which gets better as you recruit specialists and people who come to live in your town/castle. This was also implemented on a small scale in Skies of Arcadia, and slightly in the Summoner series, I believe, where you could put money and resources toward improving the lives of your kingdom. That's always been a lot of fun to me.

"2. Who would you want to interact with in the gameworld? This can be a love interest, a best friend, a comic relief traveling companion, a recurring enemy, or a faction/culture. Describe as many as you want."

All of the above? I feel like a good story is very dynamic and allows for interaction with a variety of interesting characters. In a party based game, I would like to see a love interest, a best friend, and comic relief. Most RPG games are based on a recurring enemy, that's hard to avoid, I think.

On a side-note. I think it's cool that I just noticed you're from Pittsburgh SunandShadow, I'm also from Pittsburgh. I've been reading these forums for years and it's cool to notice that after this long, I don't know how long it's been displayed.

Yeah, that is cool to see that you live around here. [smile]

Sorry for the long delay in replying to that BTW, I forgot about this thread until I was discussing video game plots with my housemate today, Final Fantasy plots vs Zelda plots and that sort of thing. Made me think about what have been my favorite game plots, which of course leads right back to this thread.