This is a tad off topic from the OP, but inline with the current direction:

I prefer situations where learning about the world and the equipment available leads to logical choices about how to deal with situations. The situations should be honest challenges with multiple solutions. Not tests with a pass button laying next to them as is often the case. Metroid Prime 3 is doing this quite badly so far and I see no hope in sight. Everything has one solution and only one. You do the obvious thing, and if the solution isn't obvious, its because you haven't go the suit or ship upgrade for it yet. There are no tools and situations to find solutions to given your tools, there are simply obstacles with a specific, simplistic, obvious solution. You either have it or you don;t and thats the challenge level of the whole game. MP3 is obviously a little extreme in its grooming for later tests with its treatment of upgrades, but it is still often how games work. You get a new device or gun or whatever and then the next 20 levels are all about using it. I want free form access to tools of varying usefulness and efficiency and a game full of problems in need of solving which have many solutions using different tools.

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Original post by Kest Quote: Original post by Way Walker In some ways, ESDF, IJKL, or UHJK would make more sense, but the arrow keys or the arrows on the numpad would be the most intuitive option. One of the reasons WASD is popular is because it provides easy access to shift, control, alt, and space while you're holding movement directions.

I'll admit to not having played many FPS's. The game where I used WASD the most was the TDS Infantry. Eventually, I switched to ESDF because it gained me easy access to three more keys (QAZ) without significantly hindering my access to tab, shift, ctrl, and alt. This was actually helpful, especially for classes with a lot of toys (engineer, medic, but some setups for the others as well) and is why I think it would make more sense than WASD in general.

EDIT: Or, if you were responding to the bit about the arrows being more intuitive, then, to be clear, I wasn't arguing they were more practical since I know why WASD is more practical. I was just saying that if someone was unfamiliar with the WASD convention and you asked them which key on the keyboard would move your character forward, they probably won't answer "W".


[Edited by - Way Walker on November 14, 2008 6:49:24 PM]

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Original post by Way Walker Eventually, I switched to ESDF because it gained me easy access to three more keys (QAZ) without significantly hindering my access to tab, shift, ctrl, and alt. This was actually helpful, especially for classes with a lot of toys (engineer, medic, but some setups for the others as well) and is why I think it would make more sense than WASD in general.

You're right. As long as the game doesn't require shift or control to be held a lot of the time, ESDF would probably be better, providing a few more accessible keys.

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Or, if you were responding to the bit about the arrows being more intuitive, then, to be clear, I wasn't arguing they were more practical since I know why WASD is more practical. I was just saying that if someone was unfamiliar with the WASD convention and you asked them which key on the keyboard would move your character forward, they probably won't answer "W".

The last part of my reply was directed at this. If it was up to me, I would suggest all games have something like a quick help screen display. Press F1, glance at something, then press another key to get back to the game. I've only played a few games that used one of these, and they were old-school PC. If a game links directly to that screen from the title or menu, then shows the shortcut (F1) in the screen itself, even the most casual newbie gamer would have an easy time getting the hang of the essentials of the game.

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Original post by Kest If it was up to me, I would suggest all games have something like a quick help screen display. Press F1, glance at something, then press another key to get back to the game. I've only played a few games that used one of these, and they were old-school PC. If a game links directly to that screen from the title or menu, then shows the shortcut (F1) in the screen itself, even the most casual newbie gamer would have an easy time getting the hang of the essentials of the game.

One reason I like this is because of the old convention of F1 bringing up help in a lot of programs, not just games (F2 started new games back in the day). I've rarely found the help to be helpful (the organization and search facilities are just terrible, it's often easier to find an answer by googling it) so I don't know if this convention is still relevant, but it's certainly one I wouldn't mind reinforcing. And, since you suggest it'd be easily accessible from the menus, you'd almost have to try to not find it.

This is actually very similar to what I've seen in a lot of flash games. There's an instruction button on the main menu, and the pause screen often tells you the controls. Since the controls vary so much I usually have to read the instruction screen and make sure to note which keys pauses the game (usually P or esc).

Sink or Swim for RPG are bad idea I would just make in the start a tutorial part in the game... But look at Halo Series They make your feet wet ^^

Halo 2 and 3 (I haven't played the first myself) are rare games in that they hide from the player so well that that they are entirely linear, scripted, and choreographed down to the detail. There may not be a tutorial as such, but the players introduction is very carefully controlled. There is only one real path through each game and what is available for you to use and what is there to fight is controlled. In a sense you are being groomed, but you are also doing that which you are being groomed for, its just there are bigger things to come as well.

ps... and yes, I do consider such a linear game progression normally detrimental to the game experience. Its just that Halo pulls it off and I hardly notice except for the convenient timing of events that remind me its scripted story progression.

A tutorial should explain everything that is not intuitively obvious. This usually includes controls. You should aim to make everything else obvious based on the foundation lain by the tutorial. That is the challenge, to create seemingly new environments and challenges that the play can solve using what he already knows about the core game mechanics.

When I think about this the idea of "The Pit of Success" comes to mind.

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The Pit of Success: in stark contrast to a summit, a peak, or a journey across a desert to find victory through many trials and surprises, we want our customers to simply fall into winning practices by using our platform and frameworks. To the extent that we make it easy to get into trouble we fail. -Rico Mariani, MS Research MindSwap Oct 2003.

In terms of gameplay it would mean that figuring out the game mechanics should be as easy as falling into a pit. No tutorial or manual. If the player does something wrong (or is about to) the game should warn the player and point the player in the right direction. Information is given when/if needed.

In terms of gameplay, i would hate the "pit of success". That seems to eb rather anti challenge. Also I really find it difficult to think that method of teaching a player the game wouldn't be massively immersion damaging and annoying. Hand holding the player like a 3 year old is bad news. On the other hand if intuitively learning the controls and mechanics is as easy as falling in a pit, then spot on.

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Original post by JasRonq In terms of gameplay, i would hate the "pit of success". That seems to eb rather anti challenge. Also I really find it difficult to think that method of teaching a player the game wouldn't be massively immersion damaging and annoying. Hand holding the player like a 3 year old is bad news. On the other hand if intuitively learning the controls and mechanics is as easy as falling in a pit, then spot on.

I agree. I'm thinking it is to be used when figuring out the game mechanics is'nt supposed to be a part of the challenge.