Ok, I see some people got really upset about my offensive post, so I want to excuse to those people. I don''t claim that C++ is the superior language because of MY choice, it''s just that C++ is everything that C is, plus a ton of improvements and enhancements.

I think the use of the world lamer is nothing wrong when it fits. It''s better than saying f.e. idiot or other words, because a lamer is f.e. not neccesarily stupid.

So, do whatever you want, use C if you for some odd reason really want to do it, I don''t care... Sorry for being a bit rude.

Tim

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glvelocity.gamedev.net
www.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity

You people are special.

1. Java is not much slower than C. With the advent of JIT, the two are very very comparible in speed. (I''ve even done time tests myself).

2. Games are not written in Java now because java is just now coming up with the speed, and most people (like many of the posters) believe it is too slow. Also, it''s a new language (at least in terms of having reasonable speed). Professional quality games take 2 years to build. Wait 2 years from now and you might see some good java games.

I like C++ and Java, they each have their strengths and their weeknesses. For games I prefer C++ simple because Microsoft has put together a good game library (directX).

One last comment. Java is not a FAD. Read any computer magazine, aside from game related, and you will see most professional grade software is being done in Java simply because you can port it immediately to any OS.

So kid, learn any language you want. No matter what you choose, it will help you learn your next language.

-Shaft (He''s a bad motha... Shut yo'' mouth)

While C and C++ share a common root (C++ was originally called "C with classes"), they are two totally different languages. One thing I was taught early was that learning C was not necessarily an advantage in learning C++; the programming/development paradigms are radically different, but C++ allows its users to "fall back" to C, being the chronological precedent, when they can''t figure out how to solve a problem in an OO way.

Now, this foolishness over language superiority: why do we have so many languages? Because no one language is perfect, and different languages are better suited to different tasks. C and ASM are particularly strong at systems-level programming. C++ is the current top choice for large and/or complex projects, and, being OO, promotes a more "natural" view of the entities involved in the program. However, this is not a revolutionary feature of C++; Smalltalk was the OG, and greatly influenced all OO languages since.

Even at scripting language level, many heralded Python as the death of Perl (just as Java was meant to kill C++, and now C#, Java); Ruby has been introduced as YAPS (Yet Another Perl Successor) and is already more popular than Perl in its native Japan (also, in the hierarchical ranking of gems a ruby is right above a pearl). And yet, COBOL programmers are now in such high demand that they are being brought out of retirement.

COBOL?

Yep. The right horse for the course... Diff''rent strokes for diff''rent folks... Which programming language (or operating system, but that''s a whole ''nother debate) you use is a matter of choice , and anyone who attempts to berate people based on that is a bigot.

Swinging back on topic , Tommy, the choice is yours. If you can get instruction or at least have someone to ask when you''re stumped (these forums might not be the best idea, as you have seen from the flame war that broke out), then try C++. Another language might be good to allow you understand the fundamentals of programming and application design; you can choose a language with similar features (OO, etc) but cleaner, simpler syntax so that your knowledge is then directly applicable.

Keeps ya head up.

Just take your time learning the program. You don''t have to learn it "in a day". I write codes out on cards and carry them with me to learn them. Writing is the best way to learn.

I would also suggest books from http://www.wrox.com They are huge red books on various computer programming topics and usually come with a CD-Rom. They aren''t cheap, but are excellent! They have books from beginners to advanced levels.

I''m learning it, too and am taking my time learning it, so I can write proper code. You''ll get there. Don''t get impatient or frustrated with yourself. I would recommend starting with C++ or Visual C++ as once you learn the more difficult ones, the rest won''t be as bad.

We''re here to encourage you. ;0)

I find you really ignorant tcs. I''ve tried C++, and I did fine using C++, classes, inheritance, etc... but it was more a pain to work on my game in C++ then it was in C. Again, sometimes there''s no need! And this is one of those! Now stop being ignorant!!!

Don''t resist RoastBeef - You know you''re hungry

... Nasty flame war. I have a solution though. Use whatever language you like. I would recommend C or C++ for game development, but Java has it''s uses, and it''s easier to do a lot of more complex things (networking, graphics, etc) in Java.

I would also recommend that you stay away from 4GLs (VB, Delphi) and older garbage (Basic, Pascal), but if you want an easier time, and you just want to learn "programming" those languages might not be so bad.

quote:

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Original post by RoastBeef

I find you really ignorant tcs. I''ve tried C++, and I did fine using C++, classes, inheritance, etc... but it was more a pain to work on my game in C++ then it was in C. Again, sometimes there''s no need! And this is one of those! Now stop being ignorant!!!

Don''t resist RoastBeef - You know you''re hungry

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You find ME ignorant ? OMG, are you out your mind ? A person like YOU writes I am ignorant ? My head hurts when I read something like this. If you lack the skill to write proper code, don''t call people that can code better like you ignorant. ESPECIALLY in game development OOP is incredible useful, how can you say it is not ? I could bang my head against the keyboard when I hear people like you talking. When you call me ignorant it is like as if Bill Gates would go to the inventor of Linux and call him a monopolist that is only after the money.

Some people...

Tim

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glvelocity.gamedev.net
www.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity

I love it,

ask a simple question and get 2 pages of replies (so far).

-Shaft (When you have nothing to say, say it anyways, nobody listens anyways).

Please try Delphi.

It is amazing that somebody chosen as a moderator would be so narrow minded. I have lost alot of respect here after reading this thread.

First of all, C is not dead and is used in many projects around the world. There are times when a structured language is preferred over an object oriented language. Some people just work better in a structured language than they do in an object oriented language. Some people prefer flowcharts to class heirarchies. I don''t know many people in the gaming industry (I am making some contacts though), but I hire alot of programmers and I can tell you this: I will not hire somebody who is only skilled in 1 language. If you only know C++ and not even a scripting language to compliment it, you ''need not apply''. C++ is a GREAT language but it is not always the best choice for everything.

There are alot of systems (financial systems, system kernels, etc) which do not fit well in the object oriented paradigm. And I''m sure there are times in most large game projects where it is necessary to escape the object oriented paradigm and write certain parts of it using straight C. If you only learn C++ you will not be able to write C code as efficiently as you would if you learned both ways. That''s like a service-man trying to solve every possible problem with his Leatherman. Sometimes even the most diversified tool needs to take a back-seat in certain circumstances.

Try writing the skeleton of a first operating system for a new brand of processor architecture using C++. Not gonna happen.

And then you say that Java has no place in game development. Again very narrow minded. Gaming is not always Quake 3. There are many successful multiplayer strategy games that use Java. Sun is revising the Java3D architecture which will allow you to use Direct3D and OpenGL easily with a single interface from within a Java application.

A Java application need not be recompiled on every system. It is truly cross-platform. The Java3D architecture is not yet, but it will be within the next few years. I think it is only supported on Windows, Linux and Solaris right now.

Certain operations are much slower and some things you just can''t do in Java. But as we speak I am working on a huge multiplayer strategy wargame using Java, and I have a 500,000:1 scale representation of the worlds coastlines (about 7 inches per unit or something like that) being rendered quite quickly thank you very much

Handling sockets and threads is infinitely easier to do using Java than it is using C++. Java comes with thread and socket classes standard and was designed with them in mind.

To be a true programmer, you should learn as much as you can. Never stop learning. Don''t learn to be biased in your choice of language though. Using C++ may be best in alot of cases, but what if you needed a small utility to retrieve data from a server somewhere during development? Are you going to spend the amount of time it takes to create such a utility using C++ or create it in 10 minutes using Java if you know how?

What if you find yourself in a situation where you are working on a game port to Linux, and you need a command-line utility to easily parse some text files but the utility will not be shipped with the game. Spend 2 hours coding it in C++ or 5 minutes in Perl using regular expressions?

And the word ''lamer'' is very unbefitting a moderator. Are you trying to drive people away from the site?

Just because you don''t understand something doesn''t mean it doesn''t make sense.

Seeya
Krippy