Sometimes things in games are designed to stand out more for functional gameplay purposes, even if this means making things a bit more unrealistic, such as a power-up or weapon that floats in mid-air, twirling, and making a sound when you get it - take away this, and players might have a harder time trying to find weapons and power-ups (or notice that they actually obtained a weapon/power-up), because they are just so darn small and can be hidden anywhere.

The same could be said with health bars, for you just have to know how your characters are doing health-wise, because it is vital to the gameplay. I think games should be designed so that they can be more easily played, and that all information that is needed to play the game more easily accessed - if this means making certain things understandably unrealistic, then so be it. The ease of how one is able to get the interfacing or gameplay of the game is perhaps one of the more important things that a game should provide; make these more difficult and players might get frustrated by even trying to understand how to play the game.

However, one can improve said things so that it fits more with the game or game's setting. Integrate the limitations of hardware or coding into the setting, so that reality transitions better into the game world. It would be seen as being more artistic and clever with the game as well. You could do things such as making the load screen not be a black screen with the words "Now Loading..." on it, but instead, show a gate or door of the next area with the opening of the door representing the loading progress (closed = 0%, completely open = 100%). For the health bars, make them fade away after a while so to not clutter up the screen with bars and numbers, and make them only appear when it is needed to show that information (such as when they suddenly get damaged). In fact, depending on the genre, you could probably do away with health bars altogether and "put it" on the characters, in the form of bleeding and bruising (a bit more gory, but conveys the message pretty well though).

[Edited by - Tangireon on June 6, 2008 2:48:31 PM]

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Original post by Telastyn Quote: If you've never intimately experienced the persona of a fighter pilot or space marine while you're gaming, you're seriously missing out. Enh. I've known far too many who use such escapism as a poor crutch for depression and similar life problems rather than dealing with them. And personally I've never had the desire to 'experience' some sort of fantasy. At least nothing even the best simulation could ever come close to providing.

Seems to me that because you don't understand their experiences, you'd prefer to classify them as being depressed and having "life problems". Evidently this is easier for you to accept than the possibility that someone might be having more vivid experiences than yourself. And there are a lot of non-gamers who share that exact stance - that "real life" is somehow always better and greater in some way. Is it? I don't claim to know.

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Original post by Telastyn Quote: If you've never intimately experienced the persona of a fighter pilot or space marine while you're gaming, you're seriously missing out. Enh. I've known far too many who use such escapism as a poor crutch for depression and similar life problems rather than dealing with them. And personally I've never had the desire to 'experience' some sort of fantasy. At least nothing even the best simulation could ever come close to providing.

If you look at the world and don't want to escape from it, you're blind. Escapism is probably one of the main components in the demand for a large number of game types.

To me, games are just like books or novels, no matter how casual they are. When you read a book or novel, you have to actually "become" that character in the book or novel in order to feel what he is doing and thinking in the story; this is the immersion process. Becoming that character becomes an important process in understanding the story and feeling its impact on the character. And, just like stories and novels, sometimes "unrealistic" techniques are used (and required) to move the story along to make a point in the story (I know I said this somewhere else). Games are just like that, there is something that you control (your main protagonist), and there is something that you must overcome (the antagonist or obstacle). Even in sport games or Mario or pool, there is always something you control, and something you must overcome, and the story of doing it is perhaps what makes it entertaining.

I figure any situation in which you can roleplay casually is just the ticket. Paradoxically, I have a terrible time role-playing in most RPGs, since you're always micromanaging inventories and shit. It's like maintaining a garden. On the other hand, in a slow-paced online FPS (Battlefield on low-player-count maps, for instance) I can really get into it, using the voice comms and inhabiting the character.

By "roleplay", I mean things like calling for a medic while we're waiting for the flag timer bar to run down on an uncontested point and I'm at 92% health, and then when one shows up, kneeling unnecessarily behind a truck and pointing my rifle down an empty side street while he works on me, then thanking him before heading out down the road. That could have been done while standing in the middle of the street, but it's gratifying to strike a pose.

Games that are too intense (Take Halo, where riding shotgun in the truck is a waste of time, since you've never got far to go and it cripples your ability to fight and to dodge attacks) or have clumsy interfaces (WoW's emote system is no good for building atmosphere, since all your emotes are delayed by the need to find them) are tough to get immersed in, and so I wind up playing the whole game with my disbelief laying heavy about me, addressing the game like I would a game of solitaire or checkers.

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Original post by Telastyn Quote: If you've never intimately experienced the persona of a fighter pilot or space marine while you're gaming, you're seriously missing out. Enh. I've known far too many who use such escapism as a poor crutch for depression and similar life problems rather than dealing with them.

I believe the opposite is true. Most games have terrible environments. Alien invasions, world wide plagues, demons from hell, enslaved humanity, and countless other immeasurable horribles to overcome. These are things that enhance the purpose of existing, while also being things that we absolutely don't want in the real world. In this sense, real life is too safe, too comfortable, and generally too non-problematic to be engaging. Games provide that conflict. I believe people who have too many problems in real life would appreciate that conflict far less.

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Original post by Argus2 Seems to me that because you don't understand their experiences, you'd prefer to classify them as being depressed and having "life problems". Evidently this is easier for you to accept than the possibility that someone might be having more vivid experiences than yourself.

A vivid delusion is still a delusion.

And while your assessment is normally an insightful one. Not in my case though. It's not a reaction to envy of vivid experience; it's seeing those experiences which relate so closely to my own experiences with consuming depression (and the reactions to that).

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If you look at the world and don't want to escape from it, you're blind. Escapism is probably one of the main components in the demand for a large number of game types.

There's a difference between entertainment as something to draw your attention from every day problems and fantasizing about being someone else.

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When you read a book or novel, you have to actually "become" that character in the book or novel in order to feel what he is doing and thinking in the story;

I respectfully disagree. Judging a response to a scenario requires an estimation of someone's thought processes; and using imagination that you are them is the common way, but not the sole way to accomplish that.

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I believe people who have too many problems in real life would appreciate that conflict far less.

People who have problems in real life (conflicts they can't resolve) often search out conflicts they win. It helps people feel as if they are not out of control of their lives.

Bullies are a fantastic example of this. Can't solve conflicts at home, or with themselves so they beat up upon the weak to compensate.



And perhaps to clarify. It's not 'getting lost in the game' that is a problem. Losing a few hours to Civilization without meaning to (while still a minor vice) isn't what I'm referring to. Everyone has their vices.

It's that fantasizing about being someone else. IMO and everything that goes with it.

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Original post by Telastyn People who have problems in real life (conflicts they can't resolve) often search out conflicts they win. It helps people feel as if they are not out of control of their lives.

I'm looking at the situation through my own eyes, and from the perspective of people who are like me. You're looking at it from the envisioned perspective of these "people", who you claim are nothing like you. Would you be willing to admit that I understand myself more than you understand someone you can't relate to? Especially considering your inability to let go of your own perspective to play games. The same concept of "letting go" is a crucial part of the empathic process of understanding other people. You have to be able to leave yourself behind and jump in.

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Bullies are a fantastic example of this. Can't solve conflicts at home, or with themselves so they beat up upon the weak to compensate.

Such an analogy could only be true if these players only enjoyed easy games. Most of my fondest gaming memories are in ridiculously insane situations where I didn't have a chance, but tried my best anyway. It doesn't matter if I win. Well, I guess it does, but I still enjoy the experience when I lose. In many cases, losing makes the game become more fun.

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It's that fantasizing about being someone else. IMO and everything that goes with it.

If projecting oneself into the game world is fantasizing, then it's something I do often. And I definitely wouldn't consider myself depressed. If anything, I would say I have an unfair level of satisfaction in real life compared to average people. So much so that I'm actually waiting for fate to balance out the universe by striking me down in some cruel fashion.

Sorry about the off-topic wandering. But it was an interesting concept to discuss.

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Original post by Tangireon To me, games are just like books or novels, no matter how casual they are. [...]And, just like stories and novels, sometimes "unrealistic" techniques are used (and required) to move the story along to make a point in the story (I know I said this somewhere else).

I totally agree with this. I think a small but vocal group like to claim that seeing a number or a bar graph somewhere ruins immersion for them, when in fact it's perfectly easy to be immersed in a book which is entirely monochrome text, on pages which you have to physically turn over yourself (ie. loading times!). People see the story behind the representation. I believe that people complaining about things that break immersion for them are generally just using that as a way to describe a feature they dislike, or the absence of one they would like.

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Original post by Kest I'm distracted by off-the-wall things in games that would otherwise be consistently reasonable. The floating/spinning power-up icons in the GTA III+ series, for example. Engaging in a high speed chase across the city is great fun. But losing the police by picking up a floating ambient star doesn't make any sense to me.

Just want to chime in here. Those stars are never placed out in the open, they are hidden in bushes and alleyways. You actually have to cut through into new areas to collect them, and it simulates losing the cops pretty well I think.

I can't really think of anything at the moment. I don't look at games like reality simulators, I view them as GAMES (oddly enough). Any game from checkers, to monopoly, to SORRY, has rules.

Hmm...

Going back to GTA, the earlier 3D versions had you die if a drop of water touched your feet. That was a bit of a stretch, but it never bugged me. I just accepted it as a consequence of a FOOT and DRIVING game that had no aquatic components.