Anyway, I''m just looking for what makes a MMORPG or other PSW game fun on the most basic level. A few things I''ve noticed from years of playing Ultima Online..
-Player Interaction. Whether roleplaying or just hanging out with friends this is the main appeal of the genre.
-Player Advancement. gaining experience, skills, stats, etc. Nothing like killing that last monster to find that you''re now a grandmaster swordsman. Great sense of accomplishment here.
-Exploration. Discovering new areas and seeing new things in the game is what keeps it exciting so the player won''t get too bored.
-Killing Goblins. Or insert any other type of NPC monster. Going out with some friends and wailing on a few dozen orcs was great fun.
-Participating in plot. UO didn''t have much of this but it kept things interesting for a while just when I was starting to get bored with the almost static world. Plot isn''t for everyone however..some prefer to create their own stories and some would just rather ignore it.
So what else have I missed? I''m trying to see how well a space combat empire building sim would translate to massively multiplayer.
I''ve already run into a few problems, mainly with player interaction and advancement. When you have several dozen ships instead of one unique character the personal touch of interaction is somewhat lost. Also, the space equivelant of gaining skills would have to be research and construction. There''s a definite lack of a sense of accomplishment one gets from clicking a "build factory" button.
What Makes Massively Multiplayer Fun?
May 23, 2001 05:10 PM
I''m designing a massively multiplayer space empire simulation thing. It doesn''t really fit into a category and I''d rather not get into details
Anyway, I''m just looking for what makes a MMORPG or other PSW game fun on the most basic level. A few things I''ve noticed from years of playing Ultima Online..
-Player Interaction. Whether roleplaying or just hanging out with friends this is the main appeal of the genre.
-Player Advancement. gaining experience, skills, stats, etc. Nothing like killing that last monster to find that you''re now a grandmaster swordsman. Great sense of accomplishment here.
-Exploration. Discovering new areas and seeing new things in the game is what keeps it exciting so the player won''t get too bored.
-Killing Goblins. Or insert any other type of NPC monster. Going out with some friends and wailing on a few dozen orcs was great fun.
-Participating in plot. UO didn''t have much of this but it kept things interesting for a while just when I was starting to get bored with the almost static world. Plot isn''t for everyone however..some prefer to create their own stories and some would just rather ignore it.
So what else have I missed? I''m trying to see how well a space combat empire building sim would translate to massively multiplayer.
I''ve already run into a few problems, mainly with player interaction and advancement. When you have several dozen ships instead of one unique character the personal touch of interaction is somewhat lost. Also, the space equivelant of gaining skills would have to be research and construction. There''s a definite lack of a sense of accomplishment one gets from clicking a "build factory" button.
Anyway, I''m just looking for what makes a MMORPG or other PSW game fun on the most basic level. A few things I''ve noticed from years of playing Ultima Online..
-Player Interaction. Whether roleplaying or just hanging out with friends this is the main appeal of the genre.
-Player Advancement. gaining experience, skills, stats, etc. Nothing like killing that last monster to find that you''re now a grandmaster swordsman. Great sense of accomplishment here.
-Exploration. Discovering new areas and seeing new things in the game is what keeps it exciting so the player won''t get too bored.
-Killing Goblins. Or insert any other type of NPC monster. Going out with some friends and wailing on a few dozen orcs was great fun.
-Participating in plot. UO didn''t have much of this but it kept things interesting for a while just when I was starting to get bored with the almost static world. Plot isn''t for everyone however..some prefer to create their own stories and some would just rather ignore it.
So what else have I missed? I''m trying to see how well a space combat empire building sim would translate to massively multiplayer.
I''ve already run into a few problems, mainly with player interaction and advancement. When you have several dozen ships instead of one unique character the personal touch of interaction is somewhat lost. Also, the space equivelant of gaining skills would have to be research and construction. There''s a definite lack of a sense of accomplishment one gets from clicking a "build factory" button.
307
May 23, 2001 05:55 PM
I think the best thing an MMORPG could do is allow the players to affect the world as much as possible and try to allow them to create their own societies with as little intervention from the creators as possible. Just let the players create their own plots by interacting w/ each other.
A CRPG in development...
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
A CRPG in development...
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. "Just don't look at the hole." -- Unspoken_Magi
122
May 25, 2001 01:00 PM
Nazrix, that does sounds like the prominent feature in a beautiful idea of mine I have written on paper a while ago. It isnt quite a MMORPG though.
I also think it is a very important part of the experience ; To be able to affect the world around you and create stuff (not only pre-scripted stuff). Interact with the other people but also with the items, the world, the weather. etc..
I also think it is a very important part of the experience ; To be able to affect the world around you and create stuff (not only pre-scripted stuff). Interact with the other people but also with the items, the world, the weather. etc..
...
May 25, 2001 01:41 PM
Here''s why people play Everquest (and I guess you can call it fun). They walk into Norrath, a naked newbie hopeless of survival. Daeryl Wolfhaste, that''s my lvl 29 druid, walks by (wolf formed of course) sensing the confusion and buffs the newbie up and gives him a SoW. Maybe he even chips in a little money to get things rolling. Finally after escorting the newbie to the guild and then to the newbie area, Daeryl waves goodbye and teleports out to the opposite side of Norrath. What does mr. newbie say after Daeryl has gone away? "Whoa, that''s gonna be me one day!"
That''s what makes me play Everquest (a VERY fun game). Seeing a wolf walking around talking to people and making them run faster. Seeing a wizard cast a cool-looking spell and seeing the big bad monster the wiz was looking at getting blown to kingdom come. Seeing a master rogue come up behind something and backstab it for 300+ damage when you are still struggling to get off hits for anything over 10. Seeing an enchanter somehow charm the Priest of Discord to attack the Kelethin guards (now THAT''S a fight to see). Seeing a bard run past you at supersonic speeds. If you can show a beginner (commonly called newbie) what they can do at later levels, they WILL stay with the game. They WILL spend hours killing things just so they can look really cool later. And despite the repetitive nature of kill,sit,kill,sit,kill... they WILL find the game fun.
Not really sure if this was what you were looking for, but I just wanted to share.
That''s what makes me play Everquest (a VERY fun game). Seeing a wolf walking around talking to people and making them run faster. Seeing a wizard cast a cool-looking spell and seeing the big bad monster the wiz was looking at getting blown to kingdom come. Seeing a master rogue come up behind something and backstab it for 300+ damage when you are still struggling to get off hits for anything over 10. Seeing an enchanter somehow charm the Priest of Discord to attack the Kelethin guards (now THAT''S a fight to see). Seeing a bard run past you at supersonic speeds. If you can show a beginner (commonly called newbie) what they can do at later levels, they WILL stay with the game. They WILL spend hours killing things just so they can look really cool later. And despite the repetitive nature of kill,sit,kill,sit,kill... they WILL find the game fun.
Not really sure if this was what you were looking for, but I just wanted to share.
122
May 25, 2001 01:46 PM
Yes it seems the idea of a Empire MMORPG sorta leaves you with few options, it seems more like a MMORTS at that point. Which could still be cool. But id say go for one or the other strictly (crossing Genre''s can be difficult and hard to pull off well). As per what would be great for me in an MMORPG? Well considering I sorta hated AC and wasn''t impressed with the other ones let me say this:
mmoRPG yes its a role playing. Role playing games are mostly fun with other people for social interaction, after that you have two main types of RPG games:
Hack and Slash (Roll Playing Games)
Actual Role Playing type of story driven game (Role Playing Game)
If there were to be a MMORPG i think something way cool (although near impossible to program) would be a reward system to get people online to actually role play more. I suspect this would have to be done by having some sort of dialog interface that you could select specific dialog to your role you want to play. A simple implementation would be: Did you destroy the space pirates? If yes move your alignment twards good, if no did you help them? if yes move alignment to bad. IF you doo each equally then neutral. (Off the top of my head.).
The most frustrating thing in MMORPG is everyone still seems to be doing their own thing, and I wish I could count the times I had played with someone whose handle was "A$$Master359" and just went around flooding.
A world that changes based upon the players actions would be cool but hard to program for all players. I also feel that there still should be NPC''s in the game that are not just dumb stupid no ai models (like in AC). I think they should actually have their own list of goals and accomplishments etc... that would take lots of resources though. I dunno just my 2 cents.
Shane
mmoRPG yes its a role playing. Role playing games are mostly fun with other people for social interaction, after that you have two main types of RPG games:
Hack and Slash (Roll Playing Games)
Actual Role Playing type of story driven game (Role Playing Game)
If there were to be a MMORPG i think something way cool (although near impossible to program) would be a reward system to get people online to actually role play more. I suspect this would have to be done by having some sort of dialog interface that you could select specific dialog to your role you want to play. A simple implementation would be: Did you destroy the space pirates? If yes move your alignment twards good, if no did you help them? if yes move alignment to bad. IF you doo each equally then neutral. (Off the top of my head.).
The most frustrating thing in MMORPG is everyone still seems to be doing their own thing, and I wish I could count the times I had played with someone whose handle was "A$$Master359" and just went around flooding.
A world that changes based upon the players actions would be cool but hard to program for all players. I also feel that there still should be NPC''s in the game that are not just dumb stupid no ai models (like in AC). I think they should actually have their own list of goals and accomplishments etc... that would take lots of resources though. I dunno just my 2 cents.
Shane
May 25, 2001 03:26 PM
Ah thanks for the ideas. Hopefully I will be able to create a sense of awe in newbies as they enter the galaxy. Huge ships with awesome abilities and what have you..
Also, there will be NPCs that trade and give out quests/information. This will help get the newbie started but the rewards will eventually be so small that there will be more profit in interacting with other players.
Another neat thing I hope to implement will be actor-players. These will be real people with a talent for roleplaying. So basically they assume the role of an alien species or fleet and play the game alongside normal players with a modified account. They have the power to create scenarios and will usually have access to unique technology. So the job of the actor-player would be to promote cooperation among players.
A simple example scenario:
The actor-player spawns an asteroid in a system and sets it on a course so it will intercept and hit a planet. He then sends out distress messages asking for help in destroying/knocking the asteroid off course. The players that respond and succeed will be rewarded by the actor-player (in the guise of the species living on the planet). One upside of this is if some d00d comes in at the last minute and says "y0 gimme rewardz man, I KILLED that asteroid biznatch!" the actor can decide to ignore him and give no reward. Actor-players can also assume the roles of enemies and threats. You may even see battles that involve several actor-players and hundreds of regular players.
Of course this totally goes against what Nazrix was saying about letting players go off on their own but I''m fairly sure that though it may look good on paper it will never work in reality. They need some guidance by creators whether it''s to further the plot or whatever. The option for players to create their own stories, however, will still be there.
Also, there will be NPCs that trade and give out quests/information. This will help get the newbie started but the rewards will eventually be so small that there will be more profit in interacting with other players.
Another neat thing I hope to implement will be actor-players. These will be real people with a talent for roleplaying. So basically they assume the role of an alien species or fleet and play the game alongside normal players with a modified account. They have the power to create scenarios and will usually have access to unique technology. So the job of the actor-player would be to promote cooperation among players.
A simple example scenario:
The actor-player spawns an asteroid in a system and sets it on a course so it will intercept and hit a planet. He then sends out distress messages asking for help in destroying/knocking the asteroid off course. The players that respond and succeed will be rewarded by the actor-player (in the guise of the species living on the planet). One upside of this is if some d00d comes in at the last minute and says "y0 gimme rewardz man, I KILLED that asteroid biznatch!" the actor can decide to ignore him and give no reward. Actor-players can also assume the roles of enemies and threats. You may even see battles that involve several actor-players and hundreds of regular players.
Of course this totally goes against what Nazrix was saying about letting players go off on their own but I''m fairly sure that though it may look good on paper it will never work in reality. They need some guidance by creators whether it''s to further the plot or whatever. The option for players to create their own stories, however, will still be there.
113
May 27, 2001 11:55 AM
Personally (and this is the reason that I currently don''t play any MMORPGs and is the main reason why I quit playing Everquest) my only want for an MMORPG is that it gives me a chance to play an individual with as many unique characteristics as possible.
I don''t even care that much about the virtual looks of my character as I do about the virtual personality and skills of that character.
I just don''t want to be ''just another warrior'' or ''just another spellcaster''. My experience from playing Everquest is that that is just about what happens. Each fighter picks about the same type of weapons, the same type of armour (depending on the ''what''s the best weapon/armour I can get''). Spellcasters usually stick to a small set of spells that most everybody uses.
There''s no big problem with this, except that it''s not what I want in a game. I want my character to be unique, period. I want the character to use a unique approach to life, even if the entire game evolves around combat. I want unique moves, unique spells, not necessarily unique weapons/armour. Nobody else has to see how unique I am, as long as I can see it myself.
I don''t even care that much about the virtual looks of my character as I do about the virtual personality and skills of that character.
I just don''t want to be ''just another warrior'' or ''just another spellcaster''. My experience from playing Everquest is that that is just about what happens. Each fighter picks about the same type of weapons, the same type of armour (depending on the ''what''s the best weapon/armour I can get''). Spellcasters usually stick to a small set of spells that most everybody uses.
There''s no big problem with this, except that it''s not what I want in a game. I want my character to be unique, period. I want the character to use a unique approach to life, even if the entire game evolves around combat. I want unique moves, unique spells, not necessarily unique weapons/armour. Nobody else has to see how unique I am, as long as I can see it myself.
You either believe that within your society more individuals are good than evil, and that by protecting the freedom of individuals within that society you will end up with a society that is as fair as possible, or you believe that within your society more individuals are evil than good, and that by limiting the freedom of individuals within that society you will end up with a society that is as fair as possible.
122
May 27, 2001 03:42 PM
What do I look for in a Online game?
Well, first thing I tend to look at is the story. I love large stories/plots which pit good vs. evil, or one empire vs. others, such as the story of Babylon 5, ...
Next, I look at how I personally can be involved in that story and how the game will be able to include me in the story. Can I start as a space fighter pilot and work my way up to captaining a galaxy class cruiser to help defend my empire, or am I just out there in space building a ship with better weapons with no point other then to get that better ship (materialism is boring).
Ive gotten suckered into games like EQ thinking that creating a Barbarian Warrior and going out in the world I could somehow be a part of an ongoing storyline. Wrong. After 2 months and reaching level 15, I realized that the only story around was the Evil vs good on the player vs. player servers. I would have to restart a new character from the beginning... well, my time invested was too long and my frustration to high to start over. And even then the player interactions was only half-ass. Most the players never heard of "role-playing your character."
Anyways, if the character I create in a MMOG cannot somehow be included in a plot or story, then Ill look elsewhere before investing in such a game.
Visit my Webpage and Project: LoreQuest
Well, first thing I tend to look at is the story. I love large stories/plots which pit good vs. evil, or one empire vs. others, such as the story of Babylon 5, ...
Next, I look at how I personally can be involved in that story and how the game will be able to include me in the story. Can I start as a space fighter pilot and work my way up to captaining a galaxy class cruiser to help defend my empire, or am I just out there in space building a ship with better weapons with no point other then to get that better ship (materialism is boring).
Ive gotten suckered into games like EQ thinking that creating a Barbarian Warrior and going out in the world I could somehow be a part of an ongoing storyline. Wrong. After 2 months and reaching level 15, I realized that the only story around was the Evil vs good on the player vs. player servers. I would have to restart a new character from the beginning... well, my time invested was too long and my frustration to high to start over. And even then the player interactions was only half-ass. Most the players never heard of "role-playing your character."
Anyways, if the character I create in a MMOG cannot somehow be included in a plot or story, then Ill look elsewhere before investing in such a game.
Visit my Webpage and Project: LoreQuest
122
May 28, 2001 10:17 PM
Hiya mumboi.
About a year ago I was working on a similar project. I have to agree with the other posters on the main reason that MM is fun - interactivity, both with other players and the environment.
One of the coolest things in a space game would be something like the following -
You are affiliated with Empire "A" and you go attack a merchant ship or invade a base affiliated with Empire "B". Two things happen - Empire B gets pissed with Empire A. Empire A gets pissed at you for creating a diplomatic incident.
The follow-ons from that sort of stuff could be endless...
Anyway, I think I still have a web-page up listing the main features of my design - Here.
I actually got development started on it, with a multiplayer engine going for a few players, just dogfighting etc.
Got bogged down in the particulars of going from <8 players LAN-based to >heaps of players Internet-based and lost enthusiasm
Anyway, good to see someone is carrying on...
Cheers,
WhiteWolf
About a year ago I was working on a similar project. I have to agree with the other posters on the main reason that MM is fun - interactivity, both with other players and the environment.
One of the coolest things in a space game would be something like the following -
You are affiliated with Empire "A" and you go attack a merchant ship or invade a base affiliated with Empire "B". Two things happen - Empire B gets pissed with Empire A. Empire A gets pissed at you for creating a diplomatic incident.
The follow-ons from that sort of stuff could be endless...
Anyway, I think I still have a web-page up listing the main features of my design - Here.
I actually got development started on it, with a multiplayer engine going for a few players, just dogfighting etc.
Got bogged down in the particulars of going from <8 players LAN-based to >heaps of players Internet-based and lost enthusiasm
Anyway, good to see someone is carrying on...
Cheers,
WhiteWolf
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