In RPGs, having classes has many benefits due to its rigidity and design, and some drawbacks. One big one I have been considering is that classes allow the designers to create an identity for the player, a big benefit that helps immersion. A drawback though is the rigidity of customization and overall play style. The solution is to allow an open system where players select the skills and abilities without regard to an overall class as defined by the designers. The problem I see here is that in all games I have seen like this, there is little to no identity to the avatar. If you have a gallery of classes to choose from, and you choose necromancer, you usually feel like you are a necromancer, it becomes obvious to you. Now if you break down the gallery of classes into their component abilities and skills, etc, and the player selects "necromancer" by taking all the skills and abilities a necromancer would have gotten, the player rarely feel like they are a necromancer. I'd like to examine why this seems to be, and how to gain the customizability of an open system, and the strong identity of the class system.

I like classes just becouse when I start a new game and create a character I want "choices" as in what I want to play as and not "Min Max trivia" where I randomly guess at what all the skills do and have to restart half way through the game becouse I have a gimp character and then go to gamefaq to find th "best" combination.

EDIT:
in short classes becouse skill systems are too mechanical

What if you had a fair assurance that it wasnt a min/maxing game and you understood at least what the abilities did (you may still restart halfway through even with classes)

And if it wasnt purely a class system, how would you create a feeling of identity for the player?

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Original post by JasRonq What if you had a fair assurance that it wasnt a min/maxing game

How would you provide that assurance? If I can mix and match skills freely (with no class restrictions), doesn't it automatically become a min/maxing game?

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Original post by JasRonq And if it wasnt purely a class system, how would you create a feeling of identity for the player?

Easily, RP value doesn't come from stats or skills and more often than not its broken by stats or skills.

If you didnt have thoroughly useless and undesirable skills to avoid and didnt find it necessary to have an optimal character, it wouldnt be a minmaxing trivia game. Minmaxing itself isnt wholly bad, its only when it is required to get a decent character build that it is detrimental.

Kaze, on aspect is that in a class system it is clearly delineated what you are, therefor the designers can make content for each class and then easily aim it at you because you chose a label at the start of the game. If you custom create in an open system, it is harder, maybe impossible, to achieve something similar because of the gradation in builds and the ways the players might want to RP that.

I think one big consideration is whether the system is intended for multiplayer or single player.

In a multiplayer situation, especially with PvP, minmaxing is a problem because players are competetive. Players are "required to get a decent character build" because they want to be at the same play-level as other players who have a decent build - in a PvP situation it becomes detrimental. Even if the benefits of minmaxing are minimal, they are still focused on by the players.

In single player, obviously there is much less competition and comparison, so the urge to be optimal is much lower, so long as the system isnt so broken as to mess up the difficulty levels.

I was thinking single player, though I forgot to say so. I do see that in multiplayer situations it is a bigger concern and so a class system may be better. A class system would also be much easier to balance on the whole.

Regardless of whether we're talking about an open system or a class-based system, the point of both is to give the player choices. Choices empower the player and provide a connection to their avatar. As a designer you want to make the choices meaningful. If they're not meaningful to the player then they'll be avoided.

Using a class-based skill system makes it easier to add meaning through class-based content, class-based gameplay (think of the traditional fantasy trinity: healer, tank, dps), etc.

Using an open skill system doesn't preclude this... but it does make it harder to ensure that characters know which choices carry the most meaning and which are just 'sugar'.

One answer to this problem is to use a convexity of choices pattern in your skill system. Allow players the freedom to learn whatever skills they like within a subset, then force them to make some decisions that will constrain the next subset. For example, making them choose one of the trinity roles after completing some initial content... then once they've made the choice open up more skills to them (reward them for making a choice... if they don't make the choice they are stuck with a central line of skills... think of it as specialisation). Then, further down the track ask them to choose again. If you're a healer, are you a 'heal over time' character, a 'burst healer' or a 'slow and steady' healer? In dps, do you focus on weapons or other skills (such as spells). Are the weapons ballistic or striking? Etc., etc.

While this system appears to be very open to the player, you can easily design content for the principle class groupings you will get along the way. You will also know that at the various points in content progression players will have accrued 'X' points and then 'these' are the possible classes they could be (with a given level of specialisation).

Regards,

Timkin

I thought about something similar to what Timkin posted, but with a few differences. Instead of class specialisation, class would be allowed to have skills from other classes, but with limits.

For instance, think of the Knight class. A tank. As such, if he were to follow the Black Mage path, he would only be able to cast low-level spells. But why would players waste their time casting crappy spells when they can kill everything quicker by attacking. Well, what if those low-level spells, instead of attacking an enemy, imbued the Knight's weapon/armor with elemental properties?

Of course, it would be easier for the Knight to be able to learn Ranger skills than Wizard skills, let's say. But how the player would be able to guide the character's development and mold the character as he/she wants.

As for how this would be accomplished, give me some time and I think I can draw what I have in mind.