My hiatus has been a tough one. I crusade for the perfect system. I don''t know a lick of code and I don''t have to. I recognize when a game''s system, the gameplay logistics, have been poorly executed. In all technicality, Tabletop Role Playing Games are the closest thing to CRPGs in this regard. They both have need of advancement, which is what sets any RPG apart. So I set to investigating all of the tabletop RPGs i could, easy for me I''ve been doing it since I was 6. My eventual discovery? There is no perfect system. Not for every game there isn''t. You might establish the singular best way of handling game mechanics for one game you make; but change one aspect of that game even slightly, and your system is no longer working with you. This is why i think System design can really be an art... and it''s an art that goes woefully unused by those who create for this medium. The perfect system is kind of boring. ANy time you have one system that you can apply to anything, fantasy, sci-fi, contemprary... you have to shave out the details to satisfy the core of each genre. This is bad. Quirky systems delve to the point where they could not be used for other games, because their quirks focus on what is important to them. Something to think about before including murderbased experience in anything other than a murderbased story. "Kill to learn" is most certainly a quirk.

quote: Original post by Landfish

There is no perfect system.

Ah., grasshopper. You have now grasped the pebble from the master''s hand. You have learned.

quote:
ANy time you have one system that you can apply to anything, fantasy, sci-fi, contemprary... you have to shave out the details to satisfy the core of each genre. This is bad. Quirky systems delve to the point where they could not be used for other games, because their quirks focus on what is important to them.

Yup. That''s the problem I have with GURPs. Its great for the general, common case, but loses the flavor for specific cases (which, of course, is what the expansions are for... but I find them bland).

quote:
Something to think about before including murderbased experience in anything other than a murderbased story. "Kill to learn" is most certainly a quirk.

What?! Go against protocol?!? Come up with something other than the hack&slash system that''s been a staple of RPGs since forever?!? "Guards! Sieze him!"


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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by Landfish
There is no perfect system.

I''m suprised this is such a revelation since you were the one that brought to light the concept that there much be a central theme and all other game aspects much work with it. This means that only certain aspects will work with other aspects.




A CRPG in development...

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

(Trying not to sound pessimistic...)

Considering the stage that the industry is in, essentially a "fetal" stage of game development, whereby most games are written from scratch, and rarely are game engines reused (save FPS''s like Quake n, RPGs like Fallout / Baldur''s Gate, or even RTS like Warcraft), how can you hope to conceptualize a complete, "do all" game system at which you hint, that will encompass everything that you''re after, without mimicking physics (and surreal- or pseudo-physics for anything sci-fi or magic related) directly, and designing pluggable portions of a game so that parts that aren''t kosher with other parts may be replaced easily?

What you seek is to recreate reality on a computer (or pen ''n'' paper) system, and improve it by expanding its limitations to that of your imagination. Hate to burst your bubble, but it cannot be done at this point in time. Someday, I believe so.

Your last paragraph seems particularly aimed at current-day RPGs and FPSs... that may be so, but without knowing "a lick of code", how can you expect to bring to fruition your plans? No one is going to code it for you.

I, too, have my own "ideology" of the type of game I''m creating. I don''t expect much help with it until the project has something visual to show off to others... and even then, I''m very likely to have bandwagoners attempting to "join the team"... the thought of someone with similar ideals who wants to join the project for the project''s sake is highly unlikely, but it''s something I''m willing to accept, because I know how to implement what I want to do.

Think about it...



MatrixCubed
http://MatrixCubed.org

quote: Original post by MatrixCubed

No one is going to code it for you.

Actually Landfish does have people to code it for him

Btw, Landfish is www.landfish.com still intact?



A CRPG in development...

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on May 5, 2001 1:04:33 AM

matrixcubed:
i think what landfish meant was that there isn't a good fit'em'all game system
and that its not worth presuing..
(correct me if i'm wrong landfish)

Edited by - NutFruit on May 5, 2001 6:47:58 AM

Landfish.com''s server is down, currently, pending my tech Paco''s DSL guy showing up. I think we scared him away last time. Incedent involving Paco''s broadsword.

The group''s still settling I think. Can''t make something from nothing. Still experimenting though.

Matrixcubed, your pessimism is well founded. For a while there, I was going around seeking the perfect system, but if you have known better the whole time, more power to you. If I might comment on one thing you said, I''m dubious as to whether or not our job as designers is to emulate reality. Surely, some of the best designs stem from that model, but also some of the worst.

What we''re creating should probably aspire to reality no more than film does. We''re selling an experience. You can sell the experience of a war story, or you can provide the user with more than they want- perfect realism. I doubt the average user wants to live through a realistic war game, the smell of corpses on the battlefield, the cries of men whom you had enough time to get to know, or could have.

No, I think a little lack of reality is important to keep games escapism. Lest you be making simulations, which is a whole other can of worms.

Right, but don''t forget that the computer game is an entirely different medium than film. And it has much greater potential, thanks to that magical advantage - interactivity.

I''ve read that in its earliest days, film was used to recreate the experience of theatre. The camera was set up, and the actors performed their plays.

Of course, film had much greater potential than that. Eventually, people began to experiment with different camera angles, new lenses, camera movement, etc.

My point is that while the potential of film was always present, it took a long time for people to learn to make use of it.

In the same way, the computer game is at a similar stage in its development. There is still much to learn. It is only through originality and dedication that the computer game will evolve to approach what it could be.


Jonathon

quote: "Mathematics are one of the fundamentaries of educationalizing our youths." -George W. Bush