Quote: Original post by AndreTheGiant
I guess I'll be sticking with a Windows PC. Although its promising that Macs are so flexible, and can run Windows "to some extent", I think that the real thing is still what I'm after. PCs and Macs each have their Pros and Cons, but I want all the Pros of a PC, and none of the Cons of a Mac, so its a no-brainer for me.

Hmm... I am not sure about that. If you buy a Mac and install Windows, you will never know you are running a Mac, apart from the logo on the case - in fact, you will have a very high-spec Windows laptop, at a competetive price, and with an excellent warranty (same day replacement of my MacBook Pro's entire DC power subsystem last weekend, fully covered by warranty). You may also notice that a lot more though has gone into the hardware than most PC manufacturers seem to put in.

I realise I may not have been clear up there: the driver issues are only in obscure variants of linux. On Windows, both Vista and XP (Ultimate and Pro, respectively), as well as Ubuntu, I have had no issues at all. For Windows, Apple gives you a disk of specially written drivers for your exact model of Mac, with everything from ambient light and motion sensors, to the built-in webcam.

My point here I guess, is that a PC will get you a PC, nothing more, but with a Mac you can switch between Windows and Mac with just a reboot, for whichever you prefer. I would go so far as to argue that even if you are only going to run Windows, a MacBook Pro is the best bang-for-your-buck that you are going to find, once you factor in the excellent service and support.

Quote: I don't get why everyone is challenging my reason for wanting a laptop... can't you just take my word for it? lol. Anyway, when I said I am "working at home", I guess what I really meant is that I am "no longer working at the office". Subtle difference I guess. Although I am working at home right now, I could technically be working anywhere that has an internet connection. If I had a laptop, I could go home and visit my parents at Christmas, or go visit my brother across the country for a few days, or my friend in BC for a few days, all without missing a day of work.

Fair enough. I guess the challenge is because a lot of desktop people buy a laptop expecting to get a portable desktop, and are often disappointed.

Thanks again for taking the time.

Let me just get this straight. Are you telling me that a Mac will run windows better than a PC?

Your saying that a Mac is better because it can run Mac stuff AND Windows stuff. Well I honestly dont know if I need Mac stuff at all. It has been said that Macs are better for "graphics/video/audio/design", and I have zero interest in that. Is there anything else that a Mac can do that a PC cant? On the other hand running windows on a Mac "...works nicely as long as you don't need hardware graphics support, or similar." - thats a huge drawback for me.

This kind of reminds me of a debate I had with a friend when the xBox 360 first came out:

Friend: The XBox360 is soo cool! You should get one! Its almost as good as a PC!
Me: Almost? I have a PC, which is exactly as good as a PC.
Friend: Yaaay XBox360!!
Me: I dont like you.

I appreciate that you're a Mac fan, but Im still not sure that they are the best for everyone.

macbooks of today are just ordinary notebooks, with macosx installed on it. it's all intel, it's all x86, and it runs linux, windows, macosx etc. you can even (illegaly) install osx on an ordinary pc/notebook as well, but drivers won't work in a lot of cases.

macs don't emulate hardware for windows, they are the identical hardware today.

i'm not mac user, nor fanboy, but facts are just facts. a macbook is an adequately priced notebook with just one mousebutton, and macosx as a choice.

i personally use a hp 2710p convertible notebook, and it's awesome. tomorrow, i should get the ordered SSD to resolve it's only issue: the slow disk (1.8" 4200rpm urgh)..

but yes, for homework, just get a pc. actually, for most homework, the company should give you a notebook or pc from themselves. but thats up to you :)

Quote: Original post by AndreTheGiant
On the other hand running windows on a Mac "...works nicely as long as you don't need hardware graphics support, or similar." - thats a huge drawback for me.

Nope, you misunderstood. If you run Windows in a Virtual Machine (on top of OS X), then it is just like any other VM - slow and without hardware support.

If you instead install Windows directly on the machine (next to OS X, rather than on top), then it is a Windows machine, and a mighty fine one. And, if you have two partitions (one for Windows, one for OS X), then you can just reboot from one to the other. Or, in your case, you can get rid of the OS X side all together.

Just chiming in to the Mac laptop debate; my laptop is MacBook Pro and my first laptop and Mac computer, and I think it's pretty darn good for I use it for. It's now replaced my desktop as my primary machine (although to be fair, my desktop wasn't exactly a powerhouse).

Apple tends to have firesales where they clear out excess stock of older models, and you can get pretty good deals if you're quick to respond.

As for the hardware itself, out of all the laptops I've trialled it's probably the nicest to use. The keyboard on the MacBook Pro is really nice and the general styling is good. The main downside of my particular model is it can get quite hot, but I haven't compared it against other laptops to see if this is a particular problem to MacBook Pros.

I've had good support from the guys at my Apple store when I had problems with dead pixels on my screen. They arranged a replacement for me which only had a downtime of a few days, so I'm pretty impressed with their local customer support. However I can't confirm if this is company-wide or just with my particular local guys.

These days you can install Windows on your Macs if you want to dual boot, so the OS issue isn't as big as it used to be. I personally just use Mac OS 10.4 (Tiger; I haven't upgraded to Leopard, the new OS version, yet) as it does everything I need it to; word processing, art, audio, programming etc. The main reason I'd see the OS to be an issue is either if you're wanting to use your laptop as a gaming machine (personally I prefer desktops for that and probably always will), or if you've already got a large investment in Windows software.

I know this sounds a bit like a Mac commercial, but I can't really compare my laptop accurately to anything else; I've only got the one laptop. But I've converted from Windows XP desktop only to almost completely using my Mac OS X running laptop in less than a year. Admittedly this is partly because of my work; it's just so convenient to have the one machine with me at home and in the office; but I find my laptop and Mac OS to be better for working than Win XP.

If I may ask, what kinds of applications do you wish to use your laptop for? Do you need something simple but portable, or do you need a powerhouse?

so basically, the hardware of a modern Mac laptop is no different than the hardware of a PC laptop, and you can install either MacOX, Windows, or both on a Mac. So for example I could buy a Mac, install windows on it, and either never use the MacOS or maybe even uninstall it. So I would basically have a regular PC, except it would have a big apple on the lid. Hmm. Still makes me wonder why I should buy a Mac and try to turn it into a regular PC. Why dont I dont just get a PC laptop to begin with. If the Mac hardware is the same as PC hardware, and I would install windows on it anyway, how does that make the Mac better? Sorry if it seems like im being a little hard-headed about this. I am getting a lot out of this discussion.

One of my main gripes with buying a PC laptop is that every single store is going to force me to purchase Vista along with it. I dont want to pay for Vista because a) I want to use windowsXP anyway, and b) I dont want to pay for windowsXP either, if that was even an option, because I already have a spare copy.

Getting a Mac doesnt get around this problem, because I'll be forced to buy MacOS. I dont want to be forced to buy an operating system.

Trapper Zoid, as I mentioned, this will be primarily a work laptop for me. I use a ton of development tools, and other software, all of which is Microsoft. But since my company isnt going to pay for it, I will use it for personal purposes as much as possible as well. I am a gamer, and while I dont expect to be able to run the latest graphics hogs on my laptop, I do want to get a machine with decent perfromance, price permitting.

Quote: Original post by AndreTheGiant
One of my main gripes with buying a PC laptop is that every single store is going to force me to purchase Vista along with it. I dont want to pay for Vista because a) I want to use windowsXP anyway, and b) I dont want to pay for windowsXP either, if that was even an option, because I already have a spare copy.

So you just ignored my post completely?

lol, no tstrim I didnt ignore your post.

I spent a long time searching my known Canadian computer sellers for those brand names, but didnt find anything. If I missed something, please correct me!

Quote: Original post by AndreTheGiant
lol, no tstrim I didnt ignore your post.

I spent a long time searching my known Canadian computer sellers for those brand names, but didnt find anything. If I missed something, please correct me!

The compal and clevo forum FAQs have lists of resellers in Canada.

Compal FAQ
Clevo FAQ

I've heard good things about Milestone PC but I don't see the latest (IFL90) on their website. It's probably worth giving them a call to see if they are offering it. Their support is supposed to be excellent.

Quote: Original post by swiftcoder
Hmm... I am not sure about that. If you buy a Mac and install Windows, you will never know you are running a Mac, apart from the logo on the case - in fact, you will have a very high-spec Windows laptop, at a competetive price, and with an excellent warranty (same day replacement of my MacBook Pro's entire DC power subsystem last weekend, fully covered by warranty).

Although I do agree that running Windows on a Mac is fine considering a Mac *is* a PC now... you are way off base regarding the competitive pricing. If you spec out a 15" MacBook Pro vs the new 15" Dell XPS you'll see what I mean. The Mac will cost you roughly 3,200 with the 3 year warranty, whereas a higher spec XPS1530 with 4 years of CompleteCare warranty (meaning if you throw the notebook out the window and run over it with a car Dell will still give you a new one) is roughly 2,100. So really I don't see the price being competitive at all considering the Dell is 2/3 the cost, has a much better warranty that even includes accidents, and is higher spec.

Quote:
I would go so far as to argue that even if you are only going to run Windows, a MacBook Pro is the best bang-for-your-buck that you are going to find, once you factor in the excellent service and support.

Steve Jobs called and he wants his Koolaid jar back now that you've finished drinking :) Sure it's a great computer but for running only Windows it is actually one of the worst bang-for-your buck, you can check out the chart at any review site. What it does give you is a sleek looking system that has some niceties such as the power cord, cooling, etc that runs Mac and Windows, but it is by no means a bargain... you pay for all of those extras.

EDIT: Just so I don't get a bunch of stupid flames I should clarify that I posted this on a system running Leopard 10.5.1.