Wu wrote:
>If it offends people, I don't want to do it. That's my point. I want to see if people would somehow be offended by religious references, or if for some other reason they wouldn't like it.

OK, then you shouldn't do it. AND you shouldn't design ANYTHING - because somebody will always be offended, no matter what you design. Personally, I'm offended by the idea of not doing something because somebody will be offended by it. So you shouldn't have posted this question in the first place. Do you see the problem? This offensive attitude of yours prevents you from doing anything!

Xai wrote:
>Don't worry about what other people will and won't like or will and won't think. If you follow your dreams and use your own judgment you will make better games.

Exactly!

Quote: OK, then you shouldn't do it. AND you shouldn't design ANYTHING - because somebody will always be offended, no matter what you design.

Okay, you're really not being fair or constructive here. People might be offended by a game that includes biblical references. People will not be offended by a game about fluffy bunnies. Or maybe a few bunny-haters will, but not nearly as many people as the religious game. I posted this question to see if a significant number of people would be offended, or if a significant number of people thought it would be cool.

Anyway a good game that comes to mind is Xenogears. I loved the story. It had some vague references to the Bible (IIRC, they had a Tower of Babel), which I thought worked well. They also had a religion that pretty much resembled Christianity, which turned out to be some evil organization bent on world conquest. That's sort of the direction I'm going with my game. Not claiming Christians are evil, but using religious references as a base and then building off of that in my own direction.

"Wu" wrote:
>Okay, you're really not being fair or constructive here.

I am totally being fair. Your whole argument is based on the naïve idea that there's one clear black-or-white answer to the question of whether controversy in games is good or is bad. There is no black-or-white answer to that question. There is no 100% reliable answer to the question of how many people are going to be offended by your game idea.

And I'm being totally constructive, too. I'm encouraging you to go ahead and design your game idea. I'm not putting down your game idea. What I'm putting down is your namby-pamby fear of controversy, because it's your own fear that's not being constructive.

Your calling me unfair and putting me down for being unconstructive is just your way of rejecting what I'm saying. It would be more fair and constructive of you if you'd argue against ideas, not the persons who express those ideas.

See, the problem is you're expressing your ideas as a condescending jerk. I appreciate your input. Please stop posting in my thread.

To: Wutalife37

You don't need to worry about the religious content, because there is only very small chance that it would be a problem. It is not likely to be a problem because:

1) Games is not a mainstream media
2) You are not a mainstream publisher
3) People don't take contents in games seriously

Basically, your game probably won't be on anyone's radar, so you don't need to worry.

haha, I remember you, sloper. You did the same thing to me. managed to say the correct stuff and be a condescending jerk.
But sloper's right. As much as I hate giving him credit, he knows what he's talking about.
That being said, I think religion is a great thing to put in games, if done correctly.
No matter what, it will step on someones toes. even if the religious content is benign, those useless tevangelists in Georgia will condemn you to hell.

so go for it. who better to piss off than god-fearing, fear-mongering dipshits?

Quote: Original post by Wutalife37
I'm not particularly religious, but I felt like some of the stories could serve as a very nice premise for my game. In particular, the story of man being driven out of Eden, the Flood and God's promise to not destroy humanity again, and possibly the idea of a Messiah.

Then you don't really need to use religion as a base at all.

The epic Babylonian poem of Gilgamesh contains much of what you find interesting in Genesis.

This should get you started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh

Given that religion has been included in nearly every other narrative form, it strikes me as odd that you hesitate to include it in games. In literature, there were strong biblical references in Lord of the Flies (Simon descending from the mountain, the pig's head, etc.) In movies, there's the ever noticable references to the crucifiction in Cool Hand Luke (sprawled out after eating eggs). Hell, even the last Harry Potter book was filled with biblical references (King's Cross chapter especially). Hell, one could even argue that Atlas Shrugged was a modern retelling of Noah's Ark. So, given all of these references to religion (Christianity in particular, given the West's understanding of that religion), it seems odd that one would choose to shy away from any religion in their story because it might offend some people.

The references don't have to be intricate parts of the narrative, either. Like Cool Hand Luke, they can simply be visuals to help reinforce character and theme. There's a reason that most of us understand a person who attracts animals to be a hero. And there's also a reason many of us recognize serpent-like creatures as sinister. Religious symbols are so deeply ingrained into our culture, that even non-believers like myself can understand them when they're used.

Oh, and if you think your material may be offensive, just remind yourself, "hell, at least it isn't Postal".

I generally agree with Tom here, in that if you want to use religion in your game you're going to have to be a bit more firm about approaching it.

and before I go any further, could we please refrain from using phrases like 'condescending jerk' as it is quite immature and uncalled for. Tom may not have been entirely diplomatic, it is however highly unnecessary to resort to name calling, and furthermore to accuse people of events independent of this thread.

The greatest problem I see with many people trying to use an existing religion in games is that they are completely condescending, and while they may raise some valid points regarding potential corruption of organised religion, it becomes a full on assault on the religion, not the corrupt individuals, and this is highly uncalled for.

for example statements like this "who better to piss off than god-fearing, fear-mongering dipshits?", are rather infuriating, as they portray a great lack of religious acceptance, and this is the last thing you want to do, as you portray yourself as nothing but bitter and ignorant.

The best way to approach this subject is in a respectful manner, and if you feel that referencing a 'real' religion can strengthen your game, go ahead, as long as you aren't senselessly abusing the religion. If you do this you can feel morally shielded in that you had no intention of attacking any religion, and anyone who interprets it as such has reached this conclusion from misinterpretation, which gives you the opportunity to truthfully attempt to correct this.

so to sum it up, if you're going to approach a controversial topic, do so in a tasteful manner, and not just for the sake of being controversial.

that's my 2 cents at least

-PD

"Anyway a good game that comes to mind is Xenogears. I loved the story. It had some vague references to the Bible (IIRC, they had a Tower of Babel), which I thought worked well. They also had a religion that pretty much resembled Christianity, which turned out to be some evil organization bent on world conquest. That's sort of the direction I'm going with my game. Not claiming Christians are evil, but using religious references as a base and then building off of that in my own direction."

Actually thats very accurate and I like it. I could listen to manson and play at the same time!!!!


Ofcourse, if you made a good playable game based on the bible that DOES preach, then you would make alot of cash. Those people believe its a sin not to buy it and support their fellow christian hahaha. Anyway, if their kid wants a computer game and they see GTA2 and RedRightHand ("Jesus Christ loves you"), which one do you think they will buy? If you want a marketting tool then use religion.