Reading JSwing''s society post & dwarfsoft''s response (about being a barkeep) reminded me of something I''ve been meaning to ask: I''ve heard the desire to be able to do different jobs outside of adventuring in a cRPG expressed often enough by now (and I mean it''s *really* common IME) that I''d like to ask two questions: 1) What jobs? Certainly people aren''t wanting to be sewage treatment plant managers or grave diggers. So what jobs would people who feel this way want to do? Often, it seems to be some small entrepreneurial thing like running a shop; or leading some kind of small band or group; or being the king / emperor / el presidente, whatever 2) How deep & detailed? If you could play an RPG where you could be all of the things you''re interested in, what details would you want included and which ones left out? If you run a bar, do you want to have to keep the books? How about restock inventory ("If we''re low on ale, the Orcs will torch the place!"); want to break up barfights? Have to throw out drunkard knights? Deal with con artists who don''t pay? What would make you happy? I''ve been thinking about some generic gameplay methods that might allow for lots of different careers in an RPG, so I''m just wondering. -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...

What''s wrong with the sewage treatment plant manager idea. Think of the possibilities. You could have a whole sim type game centered around how efficiently your operation processes incoming, uh, material. As for the grave digger, once again, think of the possibilities: In the dead of night, a new order comes in to exhume a recently buried gentleman. A grave situation indeed! Or perhaps, while tending to your duties, an Igor like character is spied cavorting between the tombstones. Surely you should dig into this matter. Let no stone go unturned!

A grave digger would be the perfect cover job for a murderer

As to how much detail to put in, that''s a tough one. Enough to make it realistic, without making it tedious. Stock inventory is definate requirement. Can''t have a player opening up a weaponsmiths, and selling infinite swords.

Breaking up bar fights, dealing with con men, and dealing with drunken knights would be normal interaction, not actually anything to do with the job (You don''t have to be a barman to wade into a fight, and try to stop it - you just need a ruddy big club )

Book keeping, on the other hand, I would put it in, but let it be automated (Magical book, enchanted, and bound to the shop - just add pages). Doing accounts by hand is not exactly fun, but, having someone steal the book, and work out how much money you''ve got, could be interesting




Virtual Worldlets, the home of online worlds

I would include the treatment plant ONLY if there was information that people could get off the manager... like sewerage maps that may help if attempting to contact the mockers... ah I mean the theives guild .

If a job appears in a game then the player is likely to ask if it is possible to work in that position.

About the bar - I think that it can be owned or run and a few different places inbetween. You might invest in the bar and reap the rewards... while you are off adventuring , and you could also choose to actively participate in making sure you have the required stock... And sort out the customers who want a freebee.

Hmmm, about other jobs. I would like to see some of the following:

Merchants
Who work basically the way merchants do... Buy and sell. This allows a player to become more reputable in their job... They might start out as a street merchant and then with more profits could work up until they can afford a store of their own. There might be ''quests'' (I am using the term loosly) that encourage the player to find new trade routes, settle scores with theives (for the more battly inclined), gaining sanctions, lowering tariffs, becoming recognised by people in high places etc.


Theives (as a profession)
It would be good if people could live as being thieves... And they could live in the aforementioned sewer right? . Quests could involve special ops like break and enter, Grand Theft Horse-and-Carto (hey.... I am a fantasy RPGer ), Poisonings, Bashings, Infiltration etc.

Priests/Monks
Look after the orders of their chosen religion/god. This could involve things like retrieving and storing treasured artifacts, expelling demons, informing princes/kings of Prophesies that fortell the future, or even to go as far as brainwashing spreading the word amongst new races ...

Assassins
Ah.... no prizes for guessing the implications of this occupation.

Protection
Body-guarding could be an interesting occupation for those chosen by the High King himself

Drug Dealing
Well, my game includes drugs, so I guess there should be drug dealers.

Brewer
The most important job ... Just means that you have access to lots of alcohol

Huntmaster
Goes hunting for dinner

Soldier
If the player is willing to do what he/she''s told then they could work for the king as a soldier

Spy
mmmm.... espionage

I don''t think that it would really be beneficial to get a job as a farmer, because it is less entertaining on the whole for a player. I think only jobs that allow for furthering of quests or for socialisation purposes should be allowed.

Anyway... I am ranting now

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche

I don''t see anything wrong in allowing players to be churls (wealthy farmers). Farmers, rather obviously, own land. Land ownership is a definite in-world possession.

Shepherds are a related possibility. Who said they had to mind sheep? Picture a player herding a flock of ant-lions around...



Virtual Worldlets, the home of online worlds

hmm... can´t ever have enough jobs... if something needs to be done you´ll find someone to do it.. try the yellow pages for inspiration (just leave out those from the starship titanic... phone desinfecters and so on).

i think that most people will go for managing positions, it´s just more fun to see your business grow than carrying beer kegs around all day... also, if youre the manager your business can take care of itself while youre gone (adventuring or offline).
this can extend to all kinds of jobs, not just merchants, but also the sewage treatment plant

the other branch would be everything that can be done freelancing (hunters, gatherers of all sorts...)

I´m not sure how detailed I want it, cause there´s always the problem of what will happen while I´m gone...

as for the bar example:

automated bookeeping, but I´d want to fix the inventory lists (how much of what should be in the store at all times, when does the boy go out and buy more), set the prices (buy and sell), hire NPCS to help run the bar (everything from alebuyer to the barmaids), give the bar a work account, maybe get some bruisers to keep the crowd in check...
with everything that occurs only every once and then (preferably when I´m online) are things like thefts, legal matters, and all the other assorted stuff... maybe there´s an alcohol crisis in town and you alone dare to venture across the mountains to restock your bar.... the profits might be worth it...

Jeeez, guys! Glad I didn''t say "stripper or psychotherapist!"

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

Brothel management, now there''s a good job



Virtual Worldlets, the home of online worlds

but just think of the posibilities if you did have them in a game

ANDREW RUSSELL STUDIOS

Sure, why not? every larger town needs a brothel... and loansharks, and XXX bars, drug pushers and whatnot... everything that sells will be there.