I''m working on a MMOG, and I''m looking into the tech tree. Would you prefer a game with or without tech tree ? (I suppose the answer is yes) Has anyone a sample tech tree so I can learn from it and use it as source of inspiration ? Would you prefer the tech system to be based on modules used in the construction of units, or based on units ? any help is welcomed since I''ve not the least idea of how to build a tech tree... -* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

Well I prefer not having tech trees, since it essentially makes the players jump through hoops to achieve the highest state of evolution in the game. I''m not sure what alternatives there are though (time-based evolution? pulling cards from a Community Chest pile?), and all this is not to say I don''t like games that use it (I play AoE II online quite often with one or more friends), but I''m sure there are better alternatives to what has previously been done.




MatrixCubed
http://MatrixCubed.org

I''ve never seen any cases in which a tech tree really deserved to be called a "tree." It''s usually just a branch, and every player has to follow the same course to achieve the best stuff. If you partition your tree such that each player can have a different gaming experience, then it would be okay. I''m thinking along the lines of Diablo II''s skill trees, particularly for the amazon, because each of her trees concentrated on a unique style of play.

Whatever type of game you''re making, I ask that you avoid the typical "arms race" convention of existing strategy games, in which the goal is to build as much stuff as possible until you can overwhelm your opponents with shear firepower. My nominee for "best strategy game of all time" is MechCommander, because it focuses on tactics instead of numbers. (I''m also part of an elite group of gamers who has actually finished the game without cheating.)

quote: Original post by Tom
Whatever type of game you''re making, I ask that you avoid the typical "arms race" convention of existing strategy games, in which the goal is to build as much stuff as possible until you can overwhelm your opponents with shear firepower. My nominee for "best strategy game of all time" is MechCommander , because it focuses on tactics instead of numbers. (I''m also part of an elite group of gamers who has actually finished the game without cheating.)

Yeah, I agree with that. I thought in Myth it was interesting because they allowed for strategy of actually using your troops in strategic ways and using the lay of the land rather than just trying to build as quickly as possible.



A CRPG in development...

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

in the design, the technology won''t be limited.

I mean that they only will be a set number of weapons, shields... but they will be upgradable infinitly, the specifications will upgrade.

With a tech tree the player will have to enhance everything in the branch to get the latest things of the branch updated/upgraded.

Maybe it''s too complicated.
Without a tech tree, there will probably not be any custom made unit.

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

What might more closely resemble reality is using a statistical tech tree. You have modules for each of your units that can be upgraded. Each of these modules go through periods of fast growth, lessening to marginal growth, until the next major breakthrough sending that statistic increasing quickly again.

For example, armor started as nothing but skin, then someone realized that an animal skin helped take the brunt of a blow, and everyone started looking for a skin that absorbed the most energy, but after the local animals had been gone through, the armor''s ability stagnated. Next someone realized that they could take some wood and block the blow, and the shield was invented, etc.

So additionally, there should be a relationship between the statitists. When one player creates a better weapon, your scientists are going to look for ways to counter that weapon, beefing up your armor, etc.

Tech trees just need to be a bit more dynamic. And since they mainly sit in the RTS market, I''ve got to say that its all the same ''rush-and-swarm'' tactics most of the time. Mech Commander *was* a needed change, heck, I''m motivated to go play it again now. I recall online games i''ve played where it was my four injured Timberwolves vs. two enemy players. I *nearly* pulled off a win using tactics....*nearly* in almost any other RTS, a 4v8 odds against somewhat evenly-matched opponents would be a slaughter. Damn, ima go boot up MCG now.


-Ryan "Run_The_Shadows"
-Run_The_Shadows@excite.com
"Doubt Everything. Find your own light." -Dying words of Gautama

heres a simple tech tree for an age of empires style RTS (numbers = upgrade cost, upgraded units are always the same price)

light Infantryman
v 100
Medium Infantryman > (can now produce)> axeman
v 350 v 350
Heavy Infantryman Heavy axeman
v 1400 v 1400
(elite unit ie. assualt infantryman) Elite axeman

The gaming world will never move on because of your obsession with RPGs!!!

thanks

I realise I said MMOG, but did not say it was a RTS.
It is a a kind of RTS-RPG-flight simulator game

yeah all this... I forgot to mention sim city like also

So many people can enjoy it.

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

The best tech tree I've seen in any game was probably in Alpha Centauri. What made it so great was that it was so HUGE and VARIED. You never felt like you just had to keep getting better and better tech, you were always having to choose which route to go. And then the descriptions of the techs were so realistic, and quotes from various fictional sources, man, it was great. One of my few gaming experiences where every once in a while you just step back and go , "Wow. That must have taken A LOT of work." Back to the main topic, I think the main thing you should try to do with a tech tree, is make the player choose which way they want to go. In any game with player evolution, rpg's, rts's, etc, its just better when you can choose what you want to improve. Do I want a better weapon skill, so I can attack better, or would I rather have better armor so I don't have to worry so much about dying. If there is a better way to do things than a tech tree, that might be cool too. How about having to research each unit independantly, but researching some units gives less time to research others. Example: You start researching bow-and-arrows, which takes 50 days to master. Once it's completed, you decide to start researching catapults. Catapults usually take 230 days to research, but now that you already understand the physics of the bow, having a tightened string release a projectile, figuring out how to make a catapult work is easier. So now it only takes 50 more days to research. Now if you went the other way around, and started researching catapult first, midway through research, at maybe 100 days, you would automatically learn the bow and arrow because you discover it along the way. To make it more interesting, the days things take to research could vary based on the intellegent level of scientists, how many scientists there are, the scientists facilities (which could also be improved through research) and good old randomness as well. Just some ideas I had while I was writing this reply. Hmm, maybe I'll flesh it out some more and put it in a game

Also, being able to choose what you learn next may be unrealistic, but it provides for better gameplay. Perhaps having the option of random selection of tech for realism buffs, and leaving it the other way for everyone else could satisfy both sides of the gaming spectrum. Whatever.

Saluk

Edited by - Saluk on April 22, 2001 1:11:25 AM